MKX Pulled Right, now it pulls LEFT!

[po-po 5.0]

Union\'s....

I\'m all for the American dream. Work your ass off, and die rich...or whatever your version of the American dream is. However, unions are an absolute perversion of this dream. Its now work some, and let our union collectively rape our employer for a better paycheck than we really deserve so we can die rich without the \"working your ass off\" part.

 

[Eddie]

Union\'s....

[quote name=\'po-po 5.0\'], $80k a year is DAMN comfortable now isn\'t it? Hell, with that kind of money I could live lavishly. [/QUOTE]

$80K/yr barely keeps the wolves away in my household. Certainly not lavish. Bill lives in the same general metro area as I do. It\'s a little cheaper there than here, not much anymore though. I\'ll pull a number out of my ass and say that it\'s the equivalent of $50-55K where you live.

 

[FirstMark]

Union\'s....

[quote name=\'Bill89LSC\']. It\'s not the degree, it\'s what you do with your education.[/QUOTE]

that is the truest thing said so far. any degrees are nice to have, but when the comp boom took off yrs ago, everyone rushed into that field and now its flooded with people that have c.s. degrees, in a field that can be easily outsourced. I worked in a dunkin whse with 3 people that had these degrees, again when you have the same degree as many others, you have to work twice as hard to get into the good money. Im not for or against unions, as Ive never worked for one, but I have been involved in 3 votes. I find it hard to believe no-one knew anything about them coming in. Here, the union has to be contacted by an employee, cards passed around to see if theres enough interest, and then the union petitions the state labor board to try and get a vote. It then takes a few months to have the vote, if the union loses by a close enough margin, they then have to wait 12 months and re-petition without the card signing process to hold another election. Yes, unions are very polarizing, ask 10 people and youll get 2 opinions y/n and ten reasons why...some work for them and love it, some have been shafted and so dont like them, but keep in mind, they are indeed a business, and the only way to make money is to recruit more members and get better wages for them, b/c the dues are usually a % of what its members make. In this day and age, I do think they are needed in some industries, but not unskilled mfg that can easily be sent overseas.

 

[po-po 5.0]

Union\'s....

[quote name=\'Eddie\']$80K/yr barely keeps the wolves away in my household. Certainly not lavish. Bill lives in the same general metro area as I do. It\'s a little cheaper there than here, not much anymore though. I\'ll pull a number out of my ass and say that it\'s the equivalent of $50-55K where you live.[/QUOTE]

Assuming your numbers are accurate, than maybe he is making a fair wage.

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[Geordi]

Union\'s....

Yea really. There\'s a guy down here in South Florida that works 9 months out of the year as a union rigger. Working constantly in one of the highest paid stagehand jobs, he barely clears $50k each year. Why only 9 months? B/c the summer is DEAD here. You\'ll be lucky if you get 4 calls in 3 months, it\'s that bad.

Now how does he live for that 50k? Oh, is he being overpaid, you think? Well you have no clue about life then. He is forced to live like a homeless man because of the prices of EVERYTHING down here. 80k would be just *barely* comfortable for a single-job household. Now he is retired from the Navy and also gets that pension, so he\'s not so bad off these days, since his house is paid for. But what about all the CURRENT workers, that are having to deal with the current property taxes? You got an answer for that one, Mr I-am-getting-overpaid-by-my-f$%k-the-public-oil-company? I don\'t give two shits what you get paid for sitting behind a desk. Your job\'s days are numbered, and will be outsourced to India as soon as they notice you.

If you want to believe that you aren\'t WORTH whatever you are getting paid, thats fine with me. I happen to think that someone that stands up to their waist in other people\'s shit SHOULD be \"overpaid\" compared with someone sitting behind a desk. They have to PRODUCE RESULTS (such as suctioning out the shit) unlike the desk jockey that only pushes numbers around on a screen. And that payment SHOULD be enough to reach the median cost-of-living for an area, especially when the job is objectionable or hazardous.

Sitting at a desk warming a chair... You are being overpaid, and I\'m sure some nice Indian or Mexican would be more than happy to do the same job for a lot less. Why don\'t you just lay yourself off and save the oil company money? I\'m sure your local grocery store will happily give you all the food you need for free, for being SO generous in saving your company money that would be better suited for the stockholders.

 

[Chris95ACR]

Union\'s....

You guys bitching about plumbing and computer work crack me up.

Teachers and Police officers are the most under-paid people in America. Teachers TEACH OUR YOUTH. Without them, none of us would be where we are today.

Police officers, for better or worse, are here to protect us and uphold the law. Whats a typical county sheriff start at here?

35k/year.

Teachers? 28k/year

Get off your high-horses already.

 

[FirstMark]

Union\'s....

yeah, I agree teachers and police officers are underpaid, but the difference is their paychecks come from the state/local govt. Theres a difference between how much money the state budgets for that as opposed to the private industries that need plumbers,electricians,pilots, etc...if you tried to give all the teachers/police officers raises, not that Id object, youd have millions of people screaming about an increase in property taxes or other taxes that would be needed to get this extra money, unless you wanna authorize a weekly deduction from your check to cover Officer Browns raise? You can only make so much teaching for a public education system, thers just not enough money going around.

 

[Bill89LSC]

Union\'s....

I definitley don\'t live large. Just an avarage middle class lifestyle. Sure I bring in a 6 figure income but I do work my ass off for it with overtime plus side work after work and weekends. My newest vehicle is a 96 with over 100k on it. and I\'ve got over 200k invested in my kids educations. I\'ve paid for my house once already and have to pay for it 2 more times because of college bills. My check pays the bills and side work buys the toys. I am anything but overpaid. If you feel your getting the shaft you need a Union. If you think your overpaid and are actually complaining about it your a fool.
I do agree that cops and teachers may be underpaid. The funny thing about that is that there was just an article in the local paper bitching that alot of the County Sheriff Deputies around here are pulling down over 100k with overtime. If you work the hours you deserve the pay. The teachers here at the High School level start at 55k and average 65 to 80k a year. There are some here that will still say they make too much and raping us because both the teachers and the Cops are, dare I say it? Union.

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[NoLmtsLncln]

Union\'s....

I am in a union and it has it\'s ups and downs. It seems that the government wants to get rid of them. and we have some unqualified people in my area, and they keep their job because the union lets them, while the good ones, get drug down with the bad. I am proud to be in a union, it also keeps me safe, harder for them to let me go because of some higher up, feels like it. I have made good money for the companies I worked for in the past but I am getting screwed in this one. my last cost of living raise .10 and it was a .01 last year. and you think union workers make to much??????? WTF, maybe some do, but not me. with a union their are more people to stand up for something.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Union\'s....

[quote name=\'Geordi 90LSC\']Sitting at a desk warming a chair... You are being overpaid, and I\'m sure some nice Indian or Mexican would be more than happy to do the same job for a lot less. Why don\'t you just lay yourself off and save the oil company money? I\'m sure your local grocery store will happily give you all the food you need for free, for being SO generous in saving your company money that would be better suited for the stockholders.[/QUOTE]
But of course, indians and Mexicans couldn\'t possibly join pipes together. Apparently paying dues to a union so you can jack your customers is the (only) gateway to untold and unattainable skills for mere mortals...

Funny how somebody that contributes to the cost of living being so high is growling about the cost of living being so high...

 

[imported_Charlie]

Union\'s....

I know that living expenses in many parts of the country are quite high. But, some things are the same price across the entire US. For example, a new car will cost you the same amount any place you happen to live. You can\'t completely justify living expenses as a excuse to say you need to make more money then everyone else in the country doing the same job.

Just because the cost of living might be higher in certain place of the US is not a excuse to have a income that is a whole lot of percentage points higher then the same worker doing the same trade anywhere else in the US. OR The World!

Sorry I can\'t explain this better but some of you are using living expenses as a excuse to make a whole, lot of money.

Come to southwest MN, or other places like this, and you will see just how much your job is really worth.

I again apologize for not explaining this very well. I\'ll try again some day when I\'m less tired and more sober.

 

[1badmalibu]

Union\'s....

I guess I\'m wondering why so many of the Union people keep saying that they feel safer working with a Union crew. The unions around here have to be aware of who is being called in for a random drug test and then they warn the people so they can go and buy some dilutant or call in sick for a few days so they can drink a shitload of water and cranberry juice to clean out their system.

I saw more drugs and fucked up people when I worked with the union than at any other job I\'ve ever had. The higher pay just lets the ones that want to party buy better drugs and union helps them get out of being fired for being stoned or all cranked out. I\'ve wathed the \"skilled and trained\" union guys go to the bar and drink their lunch then get back on heavy machinery, assemble buildings, etc while drunk.


Don\'t tell me Union work is safer.

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[Chris95ACR]

Union\'s....

So, a slight update:

The union was never voted in, and according to my company, it didn\'t have to be. Since they are already here representing another group of employees, all our company had to do was give them a written approval saying that the union can now represent us, without asking the employees whether they want to fall under the union or not.

Now, besides that, here\'s what irks me.

I\'m going to lose roughly 200 dollars a month. 50 for union dues, at minimum 10 cents/hour towards pension, around 80 dollars MORE for healthcare, than what I\'m currently paying, AND ITS THE SAME PLAN!!!. Not to mention various other little details, such as a possible paycut, losing a weeks worth of vacation, etc.

So, someone again, remind me what makes the union so great? I thought they were supposed to protect the worker, not screw\'em.

 

[FirstMark]

Union\'s....

[quote name=\'Chris95ACR\']So, a slight update:
So, someone again, remind me what makes the union so great? I thought they were supposed to protect the worker, not screw\'em.[/QUOTE]

depends if youre there before or after they arrive...it depends what you already have, in my case we stood to actually lose in the short term as you are, and at the time that was intolerable to most. when they get in to represent the employees,EVERYTHING becomes a bargaining chip (benefits,time off,pay,pension,etc...) and you could stand to lose some and gain others.