2024 Hybrid Nautilus (Engine Problems)

[swindler]

Would the injectors on the turbo version of the engine, used in the hybrid, be running at higher pressure than the non-turbo version? Perhaps a part that was good enough for that application couldn't handle the load?

Both engines are turbos.

 

[bbf2530]

I’ve been putting 93 Octane in my tank since I got it, mostly because of this issue. I’m not mechanically inclined, but I figure better gas can’t hurt.

Hi Houtex. Only referring to fuel quality and octane ratings: You likely know this, but better safe than sorry.
Higher octane gas is not necessarily “better gas”, when compared apples to apples to regular or mid-grade from the same fuel company and gas station. It simply has more additives to increase the octane rating.

So as an example, if you go to a Shell station and buy 87, 89, 91 or 93 octane fuel, the quality of the fuel is the same. The difference between each fuel is simply the octane additives. Which is what also affects the price.
However, octane rating alone is not an indicator of fuel “quality”, when purchasing fuel from the same station.

On the other hand, overall fuel quality can vary between the stations of various fuel companies, which is a good reason to try and patronize only Top Tier fuel stations.

So yes, fuel quality may/will vary between stations from different companies. Not only in additive packages, but also in the care and overall quality of the fuels.
So again, better to stick to use Top Tier fuels than cheap, “convenience store” and off-brand stations.

In addition, yes, sometimes those fuels to various company stations are supplied by the same or similar refineries. However, the quality, additive packages, care etc. etc. can/still vary. And additive packages are a primary deciding factor in determining fuel “quality”.

Therefore, in your particular case, unless you require the full advertised power rating of your vehicle, you could go to 91, 89 or even 87 regular, and save money without worrying about injector issues due to fuel “quality”.
I understand and respect any choice you make.

Hope that is all understandable and good luck.

 

[APL Rep]

This issue has been discussed here for over two weeks. Cars have already been in the shop for at least that long, not waiting for new injectors, but waiting for new engines.

Hopefully, this problem is not universal for all hybrid vehicles. The customer satisfaction program will determine whether there was just a bad batch of injectors. And based on the many hybrid owners on this forum that have not experienced a problem, that's pretty good bet/hope.

I never intended to say that all '24 hybrids sold would end up being lemon lawed. I understand how that could have been construed. But I do believe that all '24 hybrids with this problem will be out of commission for more than 30 days waiting on an engine replacement, and that will make them candidates for lemon law buy-backs in most states.

Without question we have already put two people in brand new different cars. Their old ones are here waiting for whatever. But the uppers here made the decision to do what is right by them. 3 days/200 miles and 2 weeks/2400 miles was how long each lasted.
As you say though there will be people and dealers who wind up waiting quite some time for satisfaction which is unfortunate.

 

[swindler]

Hi Houtex. Only referring to fuel quality and octane ratings: You likely know this, but better safe than sorry.
Higher octane gas is not necessarily “better gas”, when compared apples to apples to regular or mid-grade from the same fuel company and gas station. It simply has more additives to increase the octane rating.

So as an example, if you go to a Shell station and buy 87, 89, 91 or 93 octane fuel, the quality of the fuel is the same. The difference between each fuel is simply the octane additives. Which is what also affects the price.
However, octane rating alone is not an indicator of fuel “quality”, when purchasing fuel from the same station.

On the other hand, overall fuel quality can vary between the stations of various fuel companies, which is a good reason to try and patronize only Top Tier fuel stations.

So yes, fuel quality may/will vary between stations from different companies. Not only in additive packages, but also in the care and overall quality of the fuels.
So again, better to stick to use Top Tier fuels than cheap, “convenience store” and off-brand stations.

In addition, yes, sometimes those fuels to various company stations are supplied by the same or similar refineries. However, the quality, additive packages, care etc. etc. can/still vary. And additive packages are a primary deciding factor in determining fuel “quality”.

Therefore, in your particular case, unless you require the full advertised power rating of your vehicle, you could go to 91, 89 or even 87 regular, and save money without worrying about injector issues due to fuel “quality”.
I understand and respect any choice you make.

Hope that is all understandable and good luck.

Nice. Do the he injectors have any sensitivity to the ethanol content of the gasoline? Are there different expansion factors involved with different blends? We've been trying ethanol-free so far.

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[hinckley]

Without question we have already put two people in brand new different cars. Their old ones are here waiting for whatever. But the uppers here made the decision to do what is right by them. 3 days/200 miles and 2 weeks/2400 miles was how long each lasted.

Are you associated with a dealership or Ford corporate? Either way, doing the right thing for the customer is always the right thing for business.

 

[dchamb11]

Dealer says they are waiting for Ford Corporate to decide, and Ford Corporate wants to know how you feel dealer is handling the situation?
When you say Ford Corporate called you to address issues, are they committing to a plan to resolve your issues?

It was a Ford number, don’t know how far up the ladder they are, maybe just customer service, it’s barely been 24 hours. I don’t think Ford knows what to do yet. I think they wanted to know how the Dealer was treating us.

 

[bbf2530]

Nice. Do the he injectors have any sensitivity to the ethanol content of the gasoline? Are there different expansion factors involved with different blends? We've been trying ethanol-free so far.

Hi swindler. Ethanol fuels have been a reality for some time now, so my opinion is that ethanol fuels and/or presence of ethanol should not be a factor. The one caveat would be not to use fuels with a higher ethanol content than Lincoln rates our particular engine for. And that is clearly listed in our Owner Manuals.

Generally speaking, we are good up to E15. Do not use anything higher (i.e E85 etc.) than that unless specifically allowed in our Owners Manual. Just check the Index under “Fuel” to find the correct pages in your particular manual.

Concerning the injector issue: My opinion/speculation is that there was a defective run of injectors supplied by a sub-contractor/supplier. Or perhaps they were over-torqued or somehow otherwise damaged during installation on the engine/assembly line.
But again, this is only my opinion/speculation.

Hope I explained that all in a somewhat understandable manner.

Good luck.

 

[Jacyte]

Hi swindler. Ethanol fuels have been a reality for some time now, so my opinion is that ethanol fuels and/or presence of ethanol should not be a factor. The one caveat would be not to use fuels with a higher ethanol content than Lincoln rates our particular engine for. And that is clearly listed in our Owner Manuals.

Generally speaking, we are good up to E15. Do not use anything higher (I.e E85 etc.) than that unless specifically allowed in our Owners Manual. Just check the Index under “Fuel” to find the correct pages in your particular manual.

Concerning the injector issue: My opinion/speculation is that there was a defective run of injectors supplied by a sub-contractor/supplier. Or perhaps they were over-torqued or somehow otherwise damaged during installation on the engine/assembly line.
But again, this is only my opinion/speculation.

Hope I explained that all in a somewhat understandable manner.

Good luck.

That is what I believe. The injectors are not threaded in, they are sealed with 2 O-rings and sandwiched between the head and the fuel rail. The fuel rail has a bolt adjacent to each injector that holds them in place. The injector body acts as a stop and will not allow over protrusion into the combustion chamber. It would likely pull threads from the head before damaging the injector if too much torque is applied.
It definitely could be a defective batch, I feel its more likely an issue during assembly/storage. Like a bin of injectors where caps were removed and contamination may have entered.

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[markfm]

Both engines are turbos.

My error - I thought I had seen that it was based off of a non-turbo engine that got tweaked, that the actual Nautilus version hadn't been fielded before (in its US Nautilus HP/torque/turbo configuration)

(Other than for its use in the China Nautilus a year ago, which had lower numbers than the US)

 

[APL Rep]

Are you associated with a dealership or Ford corporate? Either way, doing the right thing for the customer is always the right thing for business.

I work where you bought yours sir. Known your salesperson for 30yrs. That’s why you’re happy. It’s a good place.

 

[hinckley]

I work where you bought yours sir. Known your salesperson for 30yrs. That’s why you’re happy. It’s a good place.

Well, that I am. Exceptionally good sales person (as you know).

 

[markfm]

That is what I believe. The injectors are not threaded in, they are sealed with 2 O-rings and sandwiched between the head and the fuel rail. The fuel rail has a bolt adjacent to each injector that holds them in place. The injector body acts as a stop and will not allow over protrusion into the combustion chamber. It would likely pull threads from the head before damaging the injector if too much torque is applied.
It definitely could be a defective batch, I feel its more likely an issue during assembly/storage. Like a bin of injectors where caps were removed and contamination may have entered.

From up on Facebook it sounds like at least some hybrids in the US don't have VINs on the "should get the fix" list. (the check of OASIS or FSA for affected VINs). Someone who works at a dealer said they have some hybrids that are in the do-not-demo-or-sell category (set aside by them), but had a recently received hybrid that did not have a VIN on the list (just needed other, normal, dealer prep). "This is on only certain batch VIN numbers it’s not all of them"

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[Steve_C]

.....Ones not sold or delivered are being separated and parked now as we speak. The issue is known and it will be fixed. Replacing injectors is not that difficult at all. If the car is already sold and burning gas it seems to be drive at your own risk for now. If it’s fine when the new parts come in and they are replaced than it will still be fine afterward. All of them are not going to wind up lemons.
For those who have already had issue we are working with them to see what their idea of solution is.
It’s not time to burn our own house down yet.

I think Kolectr is on the money with this. FoMoCo seems to be acknowledging & taking action as we speak. Good to know vehicles not sold/delivered are being held back until fix. I was unsure of this until Kolectr's posting.

Some may recall the Audi-VW ignition failing ignition coils debacle back in 2003.
Audi had supply issues getting coils to dealers...but I do not recall them issuing a "Do not deliver/do not sell on inventory for those affected vehicles in dealer stock.

I give FoMoCo credit for how they are handling this situation to date!

 

[NCNautilus]

I've schedule our Nautilus for service. I was willing to wait for everything to be addressed before we took it in, but we have a long trip coming up, and I don't want the injector issue lurking during that trip. If they don't have parts, I'll try to get them to let me take the loaner on the trip. I'm okay with taking the risk locally, but not hundreds of miles from home.

Same here. Taking it from Charlotte to Hilton Head next weekend. Kinda nervous.

 

[markfm]

Easy there feller. Ones not sold or delivered are being separated and parked now as we speak. The issue is known and it will be fixed. Replacing injectors is not that difficult at all. If the car is already sold and burning gas it seems to be drive at your own risk for now. If it’s fine when the new parts come in and they are replaced than it will still be fine afterward. All of them are not going to wind up lemons.
For those who have already had issue we are working with them to see what their idea of solution is.
It’s not time to burn our own house down yet.

From chatting with someone on Facebook, it sounds like the issue has been winnowed down to "batches of VINs", not all within the broad time window (Oct - Dec) of the letter. It sounds like they have multiple that are on the list, are segregated until the fix is available. On the other hand, a recently-received hybrid had a VIN not on the list, it appeared to be safe/reasonable to do final prep and turnover.

Has your experience been similar, that not all the hybrids you get are "hold" items?

If that's the case, would it be fair for those who do presently have Nautilus hybrids to ask their dealer to do a check on their VIN? If it's on the list, then "drive at your own risk" applies, but if it's not on the list it should be "not a problem for you, have fun, drive it"?

(Or maybe that list of VINs is still dynamic, being adjusted?)

 

[APL Rep]

I think Kolectr is on the money with this. FoMoCo seems to be acknowledging & taking action as we speak. Good to know vehicles not sold/delivered are being held back until fix. I was unsure of this until Kolectr's posting.

Some may recall the Audi-VW ignition failing ignition coils debacle back in 2003.
Audi had supply issues getting coils to dealers...but I do not recall them issuing a "Do not deliver/do not sell on inventory for those affected vehicles in dealer stock.

I give FoMoCo credit for how they are handling this situation to date!

I can only speak for us. Other dealers might be ignoring it and carrying on as normal driving and delivering. It’s not really official yet. Strangely it says do not drive or deliver yet it’s not ordered? Just like it you wanna? So they are here anyway.

From chatting with someone on Facebook, it sounds like the issue has been winnowed down to "batches of VINs", not all within the broad time window (Oct - Dec) of the letter. It sounds like they have multiple that are on the list, are segregated until the fix is available. On the other hand, a recently-received hybrid had a VIN not on the list, it appeared to be safe/reasonable to do final prep and turnover.

Has your experience been similar, that not all the hybrids you get are "hold" items?

If that's the case, would it be fair for those who do presently have Nautilus hybrids to ask their dealer to do a check on their VIN? If it's on the list, then "drive at your own risk" applies, but if it's not on the list it should be "not a problem for you, have fun, drive it"?

(Or maybe that list of VINs is still dynamic, being adjusted?)

For what I know so far I don’t think they know which vins exactly yet?

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[hinckley]

I think Kolectr is on the money with this. FoMoCo seems to be acknowledging & taking action as we speak. Good to know vehicles not sold/delivered are being held back until fix. I was unsure of this until Kolectr's posting.

I give FoMoCo credit for how they are handling this situation to date!

A comment and a question . . .

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but keep in mind, Kolectr works for a dealer, not Ford Corporate. It's a very good dealership (I bought my car there), but we've got to hope all dealerships act as responsibly.

We think that some hybrid VINs are on the list and some are not, and we know that when an injector fails, it's a catastrophic engine loss. If you're a hybrid owner whose VIN is on the list, wouldn't it make sense for you to park your car and ask for a loaner until it's determined whether your engine has a bad injector(s)? Isn't providing a loaner better for both Ford and the owners?

 

[Houtex]

A comment and a question . . .

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but keep in mind, Kolectr works for a dealer, not Ford Corporate. It's a very good dealership (I bought my car there), but we've got to hope all dealerships act as responsibly.

We think that some hybrid VINs are on the list and some are not, and we know that when an injector fails, it's a catastrophic engine loss. If you're a hybrid owner whose VIN is on the list, wouldn't it make sense for you to park your car and ask for a loaner until it's determined whether your engine has a bad injector(s)? Isn't providing a loaner better for both Ford and the owners?

Do they have six or seven thousand loaners? What happens to people like me? I'm away from home for six weeks and then it's another 1100 miles back home.

 

[Bdbrothers]

2024 Hybrid Nautilus Reserve II. Had the car for about 3 weeks and was loving it. Then one morning the engine was making an odd low rumbling and the car would shake a bit. Wasn't dramatic enough to warrant concern, then later that day the tailpipe started spewing smoke with a strong burnt smell and the engine got really loud and clunky. We pulled over and had Lincoln Concierge tow the car to the dealer. Been there about 3 weeks and the communication from Lincoln has been horrendous. We go days without any communication from the service department, and when we do it's because I call. They promise follow up in a couple days....it never comes...I need to call back. Depending on who I talk to it's either "it's a new car and we're waiting on parts so they take longer" or "we had to escalate to corporate, we're waiting to hear back". Nobody has given me a clear explanation as to what happened and how it will be fixed so there are no future problems. I know they will rectify the issue, but the communication is the most frustrating. It seems very shady that get different responses and never get any follow up.

Has anyone else experienced this with the 2024 Hybrid (the engine issue, not the service issue).

This happened to my hybrid today which only has 500 miles on it. Not a fan of engine replacement but probably necessary

 

[hinckley]

This happened to my hybrid today which only has 500 miles on it. Not a fan of engine replacement but probably necessary

Sorry that's your first post here. A real bummer.