doesnt say much in detail, just basics like tire rotation etc.
bank cat 2 check engine
- Thread starter Alkemist
- Start date
Todor
Active member
Carfax, it's online, pay something like 40$ and get it online and as a PDF on your mail.
Mine has records when it was washed, detailed, oil changes, checks, everything, including some outside repair facility repair bill for $2.000CAD, that might be tires, fighting with door handles or something resprayed, no one was able to tell me. Carfax knows everything.
BTW, I like to use my cars to the end. Take good care untill they are no longer able to serve their purpose. Which by the way is not some tremendous mileage. 150-200k miles and 10-14 years and they are old and dirty, worn and etc. Never had an catastrophic engine or transmission failure though. But my usage is family, personal, leisure and business, city, highway, everything, short trips, long trips.
MarkX
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I understand. It depends on the servicer uploading the info but as I qualified, "summary." Still, one would hope it is better than nothing.
Todor
Active member
Didn't see that he already has Carfax.
Then it's simple. Everything that's not on the Carfax has not happened. - persume that and perform all missing or due maintenance. Which by the way is next to nothing.
By the way, make a good research whether by 2019 all issues with the internal water pump of the 3.5/3.7 have been resolved. Also, when to replace it together with the timing components in order to be safe from coolant leaking into the oil.
i have seen any white smoke or smell of coolant, ill know better once i check the plugs, but i dont see any issues in the car except for that cat cel, which im hoping will be cured by the o2 which just arrived
Todor
Active member
The former water pump-coolant issue, presently declared to be fixed is a very mean one.
You never see or smell anything. One out of five would drip several drops of coolant on the ground before leaking everything inside the engine.
The problem is that the water pump driving sprocket is part of the timing chain path. Similar to serpentine belt route. But it is behind the timing cover.
-> So any leak would go directly into the engine oil pan and within very short time the whole engine is damaged.
There should be established safe mileage for water pump and timing components replacement. As far as I know it should be at least around 120-130.000 miles. Because any water pump will eventually leak.
Well thats alarming but hopefully its covered under the extended 150k mile warranty
Todor
Active member
One of the reasons I abandoned the Idea of a 3.5 Taurus which I like very much and switched to searching for an EB Continental. Calculated that the added cost would pay off in less maintenance and better sleep.
Inquire fellow Ford guys and the dealer for the expected water pump life.
Also, to stress it again, coolant change should be carried with the exact OEM coolant and with the big procedure with the vacuuming machine, etc. Coolant is vital for water pump life.
The code is 420 & 430. Would you know what they may be for? Thanks
Town
Senior Member
P0420 is Catalyst System Efficiency below threshold (Bank 1)
P0430 is Catalyst System Efficiency below threshold (Bank 2)
So the PCM has compared the oxygen level from the heated O2 sensor and compared it to the downstream O2 sensor in the CAT and the expected level of oxygen has not been removed through the CAT. A diagnostic by a dealer will check the O2 sensor readings as valid or not and check related areas as necessary. If a diagnostic is not possible then the DIY replacement of parts may fix the problem correctly or just replace good parts with other good parts. Here is an example of possible causes which one would think include the CAT(s):
P0420 FORD Possible Causes
What does this mean?- Faulty Three-way Catalyst Converter Bank 1
- Exhaust Tube
- Intake Air Leaks
- Faulty Oxygen (O2) Sensor
- Faulty Fuel injector(s)
- Leaking Fuel Injector (s)
- Faulty Spark plugs
- Improper Ignition Timing
- Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM)
- Dirty Air Filter
Todor
Active member
My bet is on a chain reaction started by worn spark plugs.
Spark plugs fail -> Coils could fail due to internal self discharge, I stress on could, but probably some of them did -> emission components don't work properly -> emission components eventually fail.
There is some probability of injector being clogged, etc.
The least probable of all is an actual failure of any emission component - O2 or cat being damaged right now. Also, they can't fail on both sides in the same time. -> ignition problem.
Very easy check: smell into the oil fill tube as well as the oil cap. If it smells like fuel, then start from spark plugs.
My Mustang threw the exact same codes. Under the exact same conditions, city and low revs. It wouldn't throw them at higher speeds. -> ignition
Come on, haven't you changed those plugs yet?
Spark plugs fail -> Coils could fail due to internal self discharge, I stress on could, but probably some of them did -> emission components don't work properly -> emission components eventually fail.
There is some probability of injector being clogged, etc.
The least probable of all is an actual failure of any emission component - O2 or cat being damaged right now. Also, they can't fail on both sides in the same time. -> ignition problem.
Very easy check: smell into the oil fill tube as well as the oil cap. If it smells like fuel, then start from spark plugs.
My Mustang threw the exact same codes. Under the exact same conditions, city and low revs. It wouldn't throw them at higher speeds. -> ignition
Come on, haven't you changed those plugs yet?
I am about to change them as we speak. Also, will clean out the throttle body since the air filter was super dirty. And if time, the cabin air filter as well. And maybe the serpentine belt. Will update in a few hrs if all goes well haaaaa
Todor
Active member
Please, take close pictures of the old plugs. All of them. They can tell stories you know. It's called spark plug diagnostics. Electrodes should be well visible also color of ceramic insulator around the center electrode, etc. Make a photo session.
Plugs are changed best at cold engine to avoid seizing. If it's warm, allow several minutes for the plug to warm up with the engine, i.e. sit all 6, but don't tighten, then tighten the first.
I bet you, there will be at least one or two electrode tips missing or damaged.
Todor
Active member
Plug center electrode looks quite rounded. Other than that, brick shades on the electrodes is good.
Need to see all plugs. The failing ones should be different.
Oil on intake is normal. On some intake systems with the right inclinations, it would drip back to the air filter, for instance my 1982 Opel Senator 30E would wet it's air filter while not consuming any oil.
Two-three carb cleaner cans and it will be like new.
Town
Senior Member
I don't think there should be oil on the intake, never saw that on any manifold that I have taken off. Coupled with the excess oil on the plug threads (never seen oil on plug threads like that (normally just a little carbon on end) - so was plug loose? Looks like the PCV is not working correctly and building crankcase pressure. That needs fixing.
The platinum plugs with the edge wear look to be worn out. The gap is huge but the colour looks good. The turbo engines have a smaller gap around 30 thousandths (28 to 31), but the 3.7 maintains a gap of 50 thousandths (49 to 53) so you may be better off with a smaller gap following Ford trend.
Just my opinion.
Town
Senior Member
The spark plug at its base does not look like a cone seal, more like a washer. My Town Car plugs had a very noticeable cone seat. What is the make and type of plug that you took out? What plugs have you put in?
Todor
Active member
It's a cone seal, don't worry, just bottom part is copper colored due to age.
Oil is from irregular operation - piston rings from 60's up are constant pressure relieved rings with low tension, they rely on combustion pressure to:
a. Push and seal down on the ring land; and
b. Get into the ring key and push outward against cilinder wall.
At missfire, rings will remain at their low spring pressure against the cilinder wall and thus not scrub oil properly, thus letting oil into the combustion chamber. It will craw it's way up the plug threads.
In the same time blowby of fresh fuel mixture is excessive and oil emerges in the intake and the process becomes self amplifying.
This oil will be found on all downstream exhaust and emission components. Car doesn't smoke, because cats burn the oil.
New plugs and good fuel will most likely cure everything after 200-300 miles of highway.
Cyclone is so strong, that at 90k miles excessive wear of any kind could be 99% completely ruled out.
Also, the good news is, that there is plenty of oil.
Needless to say that the oil should be immediately changed and after 2-3k miles changed again. Also after several hundred miles the new plugs should be inspected again.
Photos: cone seal upclose; NGK Ruthenium innovative alternative plug (version of which I have on the 3.0EB; Motorcaft OE plug center electrode - should be extended square crossection needle, not rounded and against it there should be a dot on the side electrode.
Oil is from irregular operation - piston rings from 60's up are constant pressure relieved rings with low tension, they rely on combustion pressure to:
a. Push and seal down on the ring land; and
b. Get into the ring key and push outward against cilinder wall.
At missfire, rings will remain at their low spring pressure against the cilinder wall and thus not scrub oil properly, thus letting oil into the combustion chamber. It will craw it's way up the plug threads.
In the same time blowby of fresh fuel mixture is excessive and oil emerges in the intake and the process becomes self amplifying.
This oil will be found on all downstream exhaust and emission components. Car doesn't smoke, because cats burn the oil.
New plugs and good fuel will most likely cure everything after 200-300 miles of highway.
Cyclone is so strong, that at 90k miles excessive wear of any kind could be 99% completely ruled out.
Also, the good news is, that there is plenty of oil.
Needless to say that the oil should be immediately changed and after 2-3k miles changed again. Also after several hundred miles the new plugs should be inspected again.
Photos: cone seal upclose; NGK Ruthenium innovative alternative plug (version of which I have on the 3.0EB; Motorcaft OE plug center electrode - should be extended square crossection needle, not rounded and against it there should be a dot on the side electrode.
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