2024 Hybrid Nautilus (Engine Problems)

[Jacyte]

I have not technical data on the injector failure cause, but more power and increased RPM’s probably could be an accelerant to this potential issue.

Again, Lincoln has not said what is happening or the QA or parts handling issue(s) surrounding an undefined batch of injectors or the other potential issue with improper installation. Either way it sucks that we are all walking on eggshells until end if May, or June, when the release more info and resources.

I doubt it really would have any effect. Cylinder pressure change would be marginal with increased boost and timing change from 87 to 93 octane. Injector pressure would likely not change.

 

[foo3922]

I did not see anywhere that premium was even recommended for the hybrid engine.

You get the full advertised hp/torque ratings with 93. It will run fine on anything 87-93 but makes the most power with 93.

Here is a screenshot from the PDF manual available from my account on the Lincoln website.

 

[JMAB]

I doubt it really would have any effect. Cylinder pressure change would be marginal with increased boost and timing change from 87 to 93 octane. Injector pressure would likely not change.

Sorry for any confusion as I wasn't doubting your points. Cylinder pressure should never change, unless there are ring problems, cylinder wall gouging, head gasket problems, valve or seat problems, etc.

I was speaking to the overall load on the engine. None of us have the data needed to diagnose and the comment about the only folks happy in this situation would be the gas stations for the additional revenue on premium fuel.

 

[JMAB]

In NC, you have to go through the fix ordeal first. As I read the sales agreement, it needs to go through arbitration.

Covered by the Lemon Law?​

Your car may be covered by the Lemon Law if all of the following have happened:​

• The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer’s warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
• You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it.
• The manufacturer makes “a reasonable number of attempts” to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty.
• The manufacturers’ efforts to fix the vehicle fail. Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.

Here is the direct link:

https://ncdoj.gov/protecting-consum...urers to repair,miles (whichever comes first)

Also from that page: If you have a complaint about new car warranties contact us for help or call toll free within North Carolina at 1-877-5-NO-SCAM

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[hinckley]

how does the lemon law work? Does it vary by state or is it federal? I have no idea how to initiate or what the rules are. Thanks for any information you can provide.

Just make sure you've documented your number of days. From angore's post, it looks like you can invoke NC's lemon law at 20 days out of service. I know I'd rather have a new car than an engine replacement.

 

[markfm]

... I was speaking to the overall load on the engine. None of us have the data needed to diagnose and the comment about the only folks happy in this situation would be the gas stations for the additional revenue on premium fuel.

Sorry if my prior post was a bit cheeky (I had missed including a smiley), but my comment was intended to be analogous to what Jacyte posted later. The vehicle is designed to run on regular gas (though use 93 for maximum claimed HP) - as long as you are using good, "Top Tier detergent" 87 octane gasoline, going with higher octane shouldn't matter for the injector failure.

As we've heard of failures occurring as early as driving off the dealer's lot, engine loading in a case like that shouldn't have been a factor.

 

[Steve_C]

If your 93 Octane blend is 10% ethanol vs 15%....then I would say it may be better for injector longevity over the long haul! If leasing, I would not care myself.
Regardless of what the argument may be over performance gains, the real advantage to using 93 as discussed is the ethanol percentage factor!

For those using 93, this may be a good enough factor alone to use it!

 

[angore]

Just make sure you've documented your number of days. From angore's post, it looks like you can invoke NC's lemon law at 20 days out of service. I know I'd rather have a new car than an engine replacement.

It also mentions 4x repair too. I am not sure a lack of a spare engine is good enough. If they replace and fails again then you may have a better case.

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[swindler]

If your 93 Octane blend is 10% ethanol vs 15%....then I would say it may be better for injector longevity over the long haul! If leasing, I would not care myself.
Regardless of what the argument may be over performance gains, the real advantage to using 93 as discussed is the ethanol percentage factor!

For those using 93, this may be a good enough factor alone to use it!

FYI, we've been using ethanol-free gas, which happens to be 90 octane at the station we're using. But we've seen ethanol-free as low as 86 octane (and many at 87). You don't have to buy high octane gas to get a better ethanol percentage.

 

[angore]

I called the service manager at Leith Lincoln and discussed the issue. They are just waiting on Lincoln to provide details. I asked if they had any failures and he said no but when he said they have sold lots of hybrids i do not think he meant just Nautilus ones. He noted Lincoln policy is drive. No surprise there. I suspect any replacement engine would need new injectors and they may have put a bin lock (what we called at work on spares on quality hold) those waiting for rework.

 

[Houtex]

FYI for Texans Lemon Law. What caught my attention below is that if you receive a loaner while your vehicle is being repaired, you can’t start the 30 day out of service counter

Four-times test​

You pass the four-times test if you have taken the vehicle to a dealership for repairs:

• Four times for the same defect within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first, and the defect is still not repaired.

Serious safety-hazard test​

A serious safety hazard is a life-threatening malfunction that substantially impedes your ability to control or operate the vehicle normally or that creates a substantial risk of fire/explosion.

You pass the serious safety-hazard test if you have taken the vehicle for repair of a serious safety-hazard:

• Twice during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first, and the defect is still not repaired.

30-day test​

You pass the 30-day test if your vehicle has been out of service for repair because of a defect covered by the original factory warranty:

• For a total of 30 days or more - not necessarily all at one time - during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (if a comparable loaner vehicle was provided while the vehicle was being repaired, that time does not count toward the 30 days) a substantial defect still exists.

 

[Steve_C]

FYI, we've been using ethanol-free gas, which happens to be 90 octane at the station we're using. But we've seen ethanol-free as low as 86 octane (and many at 87). You don't have to buy high octane gas to get a better ethanol percentage.

No argument! As mentioned elsewhere, ethanol varies region to region. Regions close to farmlands are best...urban cities & suburbs in many regions, forget it!
Count your blessings if you can access ethanol free gas in your area!

Point I am making is the less ethanol, the better for your injectors!
Added edit:
In my region, (NYC & suburbs) you can find 10% ethanol in higher grade fuels...but for the most part, 87 octane is usually 15%.
Again, YMMV....you need to see what is going on in your part of the world!

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[Steve_C]

I called the service manager at Leith Lincoln and discussed the issue. They are just waiting on Lincoln to provide details. I asked if they had any failures and he said no but when he said they have sold lots of hybrids i do not think he meant just Nautilus ones. He noted Lincoln policy is drive. No surprise there. I suspect any replacement engine would need new injectors and they may have put a bin lock (what we called at work on spares on quality hold) those waiting for rework.

No doubt the bean counters did their job assessing per failure cost vs holding back and installing injectors! If Lincoln policy is to drive...then they must feel it will be more cost effective to drive & fail rather then a preemptive holdback.

 

[markfm]

We need Clint Eastwood - "Do you feel lucky? You're driving a Nautilus hybrid tagged as having the problem injectors. Maybe you'll get a dead engine, maybe not."

(If I had one, possibly I'd be okay driving locally, where at least if the engine goes boom it's within tow range. For a long trip I'd definitely look at using a different car.)

 

[jsp0919]

I wonder how many issues for the hybrid Nautilus would create a voluntary buy back from Lincoln. I think the car could possibly have a stigma attached to it based on this issue. It would be helpful to know how many vehicles have the problem

 

[CliffDiver]

I wonder how many issues for the hybrid Nautilus would create a voluntary buy back from Lincoln. I think the car could possibly have a stigma attached to it based on this issue. It would be helpful to know how many vehicles have the problem

The May 1st letter from Lincoln to the dealers indicates a "US population of affected vehicles: 6,574". You'd have to add in the rest of the world number to know the full total. But this gives you an idea of the magnitude.

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[NCNautilus]

We need Clint Eastwood - "Do you feel lucky? You're driving a Nautilus hybrid tagged as having the problem injectors. Maybe you'll get a dead engine, maybe not."

(If I had one, possibly I'd be okay driving locally, where at least if the engine goes boom it's within tow range. For a long trip I'd definitely look at using a different car.)

I'm not. I paid for a Nautilus and they are aren't being proactive, so I'm driving my Nautilus. 500 mile round trip from Charlotte to Hilton Head this weekend and next week. If I get stuck out of tow range and they balk, I will fight it. I will win.

 

[Jacyte]

The May 1st letter from Lincoln to the dealers indicates a "US population of affected vehicles: 6,574". You'd have to add in the rest of the world number to know the full total. But this gives you an idea of the magnitude.

We generally saw about 3000 vehicles on each ship initially. No clue what the mix was on each ship but the first hybrids came in on the Chorus back in January. Seems that ship was loaded with them.

 

[markfm]

I'm not. I paid for a Nautilus and they are aren't being proactive, so I'm driving my Nautilus. 500 mile round trip from Charlotte to Hilton Head this weekend and next week. If I get stuck out of tow range and they balk, I will fight it. I will win.

No disagreement, it's all about an individual's risk tolerance (availability of an alternate vehicle, potentially significant repair duration if it does happen, what the impact would be if you cannot reach a destination on time, ...).

 

[Houtex]

I'm not. I paid for a Nautilus and they are aren't being proactive, so I'm driving my Nautilus. 500 mile round trip from Charlotte to Hilton Head this weekend and next week. If I get stuck out of tow range and they balk, I will fight it. I will win.

I did an 1,100 mile trip a week ago and will head back in six weeks for another 1,100. But I would be lying if I said I didn’t feel some apprehension. There are a lot of areas along the route where I’m sure there are no Lincoln dealers nearby and I have two small dogs in the back. The idea of waiting hours for help in the heat is pretty frightening. Maybe I should add towing to my auto insurance. I purposely left it off because I know it’s provided by Lincoln, but if it happens after hours or on a weekend, I wonder how responsive they would be.