Open Letter to Lincoln - How I'd Improve the Navigator

[DragnWagn2Navigators]

I purchased a 2024 Navigator in early May. The first time my wife took the vehicle out, less than 200 miles, and attempted to use the navigation system the screen reported a hardware issue with instructions to return the vehicle to the dealership for service. I returned the vehicle and the service department discovered a problem with the APIM & FCIM were faulty. Parts were ordered for the repair. The FCIM was replaced today but the APIM remains on back order with no ETA. If Lincoln can sell a vehicle with a faulty part on indefinite back order how can the continue to build new vehicles with the same features. Very disappointing to spend this amount of money for a new vehicle & immediately have to put it in the shop for service. Repairs not completed due to unavailability of parts. DISAPPOINTED IN LINCOLN.

Was this resolve? Did you get a loaner while waiting for the backordered part?

 

[Black Label]

Maybe I misunderstood the capability of the OTA updates that Lincoln promoted with Sync 4. But, I seem to recall that ActiveGlide, now BlueCruise, was supposed to be updated through OTA updates to the new versions, 1.1, 1.2, etc. Ford Authority, as I recall, said the new features such as automatic lane changing and suggestive lane changing, would be sent through OTA updates. My 2022 is still on version 1.0, I think. That is another problem is knowing what version of Sync and BlueCruise you should have installed in your vehicle. Yes, my app and owner site show up to date, but who knows? They don't say you should have "X" version, and that is what you have.

A phone call with Lincoln Way the other day seemed to indicate, after the person researched my VIN, that I am stuck on 1.1. Then, in typical fashion, he said, well, maybe you will get updates. Lol, typical Lincoln, they don't know what the hell they are doing on tech.

If the idea is a bait and switch to get me to buy a 2025 just for better BlueCruise, well, Lincoln, that isn't going to happen. I love the appearance of the Navigator and get a lot of compliments, but I will just move on from Lincoln.

Frankly, I would be stunned, even though the admin says so, if anyone at Lincoln actually reads any forums on the internet and makes changes based on that.

 

[dlcorbett]

Maybe I misunderstood the capability of the OTA updates that Lincoln promoted with Sync 4. But, I seem to recall that ActiveGlide, now BlueCruise, was supposed to be updated through OTA updates to the new versions, 1.1, 1.2, etc. Ford Authority, as I recall, said the new features such as automatic lane changing and suggestive lane changing, would be sent through OTA updates. My 2022 is still on version 1.0, I think. That is another problem is knowing what version of Sync and BlueCruise you should have installed in your vehicle. Yes, my app and owner site show up to date, but who knows? They don't say you should have "X" version, and that is what you have.

A phone call with Lincoln Way the other day seemed to indicate, after the person researched my VIN, that I am stuck on 1.1. Then, in typical fashion, he said, well, maybe you will get updates. Lol, typical Lincoln, they don't know what the hell they are doing on tech.

If the idea is a bait and switch to get me to buy a 2025 just for better BlueCruise, well, Lincoln, that isn't going to happen. I love the appearance of the Navigator and get a lot of compliments, but I will just move on from Lincoln.

Frankly, I would be stunned, even though the admin says so, if anyone at Lincoln actually reads any forums on the internet and makes changes based on that.

They def don't because if they did, they'd know that owners wanted the hybrid 3.5 or 5.0 and air suspension in the new nav, things they already have for current vehicles that most likely would not have been to expensive to source. Though I personally like it, absolutely noone on here or anywhere owners talk said, "I wish my navigator had the clamp shell lift gate of the bmw x7!"

 

[dlcorbett]

Why did lincoln take away some of the features away from The reserve trim? The current model has standard hvac sec row seats, with optional massage seats on the reserve. Now, they are only heated, and the hvac seats are locked to a 2k option and doesn't include massage function. Now massage 2nd row is locked to bl. The order guide doesn't make it clear if 24 way seats includes massage as neither that or 30 way seats has massage as a function.

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[Action]

Why did lincoln take away some of the features away from The reserve trim? The current model has standard hvac sec row seats, with optional massage seats on the reserve. Now, they are only heated, and the hvac seats are locked to a 2k option and doesn't include massage function. Now massage 2nd row is locked to bl. The order guide doesn't make it clear if 24 way seats includes massage as neither that or 30 way seats has massage as a function.

Unless someone else has a specific answer.
Generally moving options into or out of a trim group is typically based on buyer history and feedback.
Do we sell more cars at this price point or that price point.
What options or option groups are most popular? If the option group is increased or decreased what are the results?
And by far it is always less costly to group options or make certain options standard. The less customizing a model the more efficient build.
Knowing that there will be a price leader (much of the advertising happens on this model) and the opposite is a fully loaded model. It is how the middle is built is where all of the questions happen.

Like any car manufacturer, Ford is in the car selling business. Changes in a model line are usually done to maximize sales.
There are other factors like what does the competition offer?
Are we selling more or less vehicles versus the competition with those features?
Does an option or an option group push the MSRP outside of a price range that is attempting to be maintained?
Is there a vendor or warranty/quality issue?

Action

 

[dlcorbett]

Agreed, but what's annoying is that the options and features list looks no different than the 2022 navigator spec sheet. Only additions is the mutli media suite. I still want one, but its harder for the consumer to get excited when your selling a product that on a basic level offers no stand out feature. Infiniti has unique cameras, escalade has v8s and advanced tech, gw also has advanced tech, and lexus has hybrid. The nav doesn't have anything distinct enough to make the avg buyer choose it over its competition.

 

[Action]

Answering for the company would be assumptive on my part. That comparison will need to be rhetorical.

However an answer might be, move up to a non-base model.
In addition, when making comparisons to other manufacture's product, you will need to do that with MSRP. Both consumers and the competition will use that filter. I have no idea if those models you mentioned are in the same price point. Because that is one of the biggest factors for making comparisons that companies are extremely aware of. And related to that is capacity. If the current assembly plant is maxed, the choices are to run another line/shift or leave it alone collecting more $ on the current demand.

As to a V8, Navigator/Expedition (Or any Ford SUV) has not had one of those for a decade. With government pressure imposed via CAFE standards the V8 is done for the future in most passenger cars and light trucks made by the blue oval*. And it is one of the big reasons I have a second gen Navigator. Still looks good for an 18 year old with 210,000 on the clock. My goal used to be 250K. I now have a target of 500K. The key for me to make that isn't mechanical. It is cosmetic.

*The exception is Mustang and Super Duty trucks. Because every rule has to have an exception.

Action

 

[dlcorbett]

Another thing that's annoying, only the black label comes with door trimmed ambient lighting. The reserve only has the ambient lighting in the door pockets. The expy has ambient lighting on the door, dash and console, but the 100k nav does not.

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[Black Label]

Another thing that's annoying, only the black label comes with door trimmed ambient lighting. The reserve only has the ambient lighting in the door pockets. The expy has ambient lighting on the door, dash and console, but the 100k nav does not.

Carrots.

 

[2024NAVBL]

1. Make sure the new model doesn't have a vibration issue that service can't figure out.

2. Service departments need to be overhauled if they are anything like the two that I have to deal with as a new Lincoln buyer. Many complaints about no loaners or having to wait long periods for one but that's because guys like me are calling the shop every day for updates/progress and do not get calls back or see that my car is even touched for nearly a month. I actually feel bad I have the loaner for as long as I do while my brand new truck sits in some lot and rots.

I love the truck but regret not buying another BMW if this is the way the service department operate at these dealerships.

 

[driller]

Lincoln, if you're listening, don't forget your roots.

Number 1, it's a truck and should do truck things with ease but with elegance.

BTW, there's ample room under the hood for a supercharged Predator V8. I recognize the struggle with CAFE/emission standards but I find it hard to believe a supercharged V8 option would get less mpg than the 13.6 mpg I get with the twin turbo V6. It should at least be an option, even if it came with a gas guzzler tax.

Programming... quit trying to default everything to some pre-determined arrangement you think it should be and allow the user profiles to pre-select preferred features. Case in point... I prefer the "Excite" drive mode, but now the Navigator selects auto 4WD along with said drive mode presumably for traction and handling. Okay... but when I park and shut it off, I return to the vehicle for it to default to "Normal" drive mode. But wait! The auto 4WD is still engaged? And now I have to remember to shut off the Auto Stop/Start because that too is the default setting.

And as far as 'truck' things go, what happened to Select Shift on the electronically controlled transmissions? I drive a 2018 'truck' with the same powertrain and my preference (due to my geographical location) is to lock out the overdrive gears and essentially drive a 'six speed' unless I venture out to the interstate highway. This keeps the engine more in its power band and uses the engine braking for descending hills... loaded or not. Now you give me paddle shifters in the Navigator but the programming that comes with it will determine when to shift back into "D" instead of the driver? I'm really at a loss with that thinking.

Going further... where is the "Tow/Haul" mode when you're not towing?

I can't wait for when I actually start to tow and haul only to find I need to order custom springs since you've somehow determined air suspension is no longer adequate.

Along with the lack of OTA BlueCruise updates and vibration issues already mentioned, I will also note you effectively took away some customer base doing away with a base model option.

 

[TDizzle]

Agree.

Lincoln, if you're listening, don't forget your roots.

Number 1, it's a truck and should do truck things with ease but with elegance.

BTW, there's ample room under the hood for a supercharged Predator V8. I recognize the struggle with CAFE/emission standards but I find it hard to believe a supercharged V8 option would get less mpg than the 13.6 mpg I get with the twin turbo V6. It should at least be an option, even if it came with a gas guzzler tax.

Programming... quit trying to default everything to some pre-determined arrangement you think it should be and allow the user profiles to pre-select preferred features. Case in point... I prefer the "Excite" drive mode, but now the Navigator selects auto 4WD along with said drive mode presumably for traction and handling. Okay... but when I park and shut it off, I return to the vehicle for it to default to "Normal" drive mode. But wait! The auto 4WD is still engaged? And now I have to remember to shut off the Auto Stop/Start because that too is the default setting.

And as far as 'truck' things go, what happened to Select Shift on the electronically controlled transmissions? I drive a 2018 'truck' with the same powertrain and my preference (due to my geographical location) is to lock out the overdrive gears and essentially drive a 'six speed' unless I venture out to the interstate highway. This keeps the engine more in its power band and uses the engine braking for descending hills... loaded or not. Now you give me paddle shifters in the Navigator but the programming that comes with it will determine when to shift back into "D" instead of the driver? I'm really at a loss with that thinking.

Going further... where is the "Tow/Haul" mode when you're not towing?

I can't wait for when I actually start to tow and haul only to find I need to order custom springs since you've somehow determined air suspension is no longer adequate.

Along with the lack of OTA BlueCruise updates and vibration issues already mentioned, I will also note you effectively took away some customer base doing away with a base model option.

Agree. Give us a Red Label navigator with a supercharged V8, 800+HP please. Put the sport back in sport utility vehicle

I second the default nonsense. Also, get rid of the default to auto stop, let us disable permanently. It is a car killer feature guaranteeing early EOL on starting components

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[disoria]

Lincoln executives have been watching this community for years. They've also made improvements to their vehicles based upon what they've read here. They are listening to you.

This discussion will serve as a quick and easy way for Lincoln executives to gauge interest and help make decisions moving forward.

As a Navigator driver, you should state exactly what you'd like to see enhanced, added, and/or omitted from your Lincoln Navigator.

Any posts that don't stick to the subject matter will be moved elsewhere.

Fix the transmission issue. I had the first transmission replaced at 48k (waited 2 months for transmission to arrive), lasted for 3 months and now slipping again. Running board motor also failed on both sides. For a 100k vehicle to have these annoying and expensive issues is unacceptable. Looks like we're going back to german or Japanese luxury vehicle

 

[A Charles 9920]

I would like to see an adult somewhere in the planning of features. I don't need a "spa" or the feeling of a just ended rain and darn sure don't need "digital scents" or dash displays with themes. Check out the features shown on the 2025 model and ask yourself if it's not a big step into the world of crazy! But then maybe it would be slick of the digital scent feature included the aroma of road kill, brakes burning and diesel exhaust.

OK, so much for the nutty stuff. Overall it is a good looking vehicle and the cushy interior would appear to be top of the line vs other lux SUV's. But as the current owner of a 2022 with some mysterious electrical issues on "lux" features that do not function and cannot yet be identified and corrected there is just too much "fluff" for me. NEVER going to purchase another one and the next vehicle will be scaled back on "tech" features to the degree possible, recognizing even the lower end models have tons of tech.

 

[Anthony Cipriano]

I would like to see an adult somewhere in the planning of features. I don't need a "spa" or the feeling of a just ended rain and darn sure don't need "digital scents" or dash displays with themes. Check out the features shown on the 2025 model and ask yourself if it's not a big step into the world of crazy!

These features all started at Mercedes. And God knows they don't know what they're doing. I mean who buys a Mercedes? But I get it. Especially if one wants a vehicle they can retire with and not have to worry about so much technology to maintain.

 

[Action]

These features all started at Mercedes. And God knows they don't know what they're doing. I mean who buys a Mercedes? But I get it.

Not sure Lincoln competes with Mercedes because of the pricing difference. I am a bit clueless on the price of a Benz

HOWEVER, to answer the question of who buys????
In 2024, 324,528 Mercedes vehicles were sold. And that was an increase from the previous year.

As a comparison Lincoln sold 104,823 vehicles in the same period. Which was an increase as well.

Based on unit sales, I am sure Lincoln (Fordd) would like to sell more.
Since about 6 to 8 years ago Ford shifted to be profitable in specific vehicle lines. (Dropping sedans was one move)
That has worked fairly well with the Billions in profit.
They will need it to jump when the market shifts again.

Action

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[Anthony Cipriano]

Not sure Lincoln competes with Mercedes because of the pricing difference. I am a bit clueless on the price of a Benz

HOWEVER, to answer the question of who buys????
In 2024, 324,528 Mercedes vehicles were sold. And that was an increase from the previous year.

As a comparison Lincoln sold 104,823 vehicles in the same period. Which was an increase as well.

Based on unit sales, I am sure Lincoln (Fordd) would like to sell more.
Since about 6 to 8 years ago Ford shifted to be profitable in specific vehicle lines. (Dropping sedans was one move)
That has worked fairly well with the Billions in profit.
They will need it to jump when the market shifts again.

Action

Sorry I forget sarcasm doesn't translate so easily online. Yea I'm sure Lincoln would love to have Mercedes customer base and cache. All those features that were being criticized are features people who buy Benz love. I'm sure Lincoln could build every bit of every car Mercedes does, they just don't have the finances to do it.

 

[Action]

Finances ... or lack thereof ..... maybe. Or maybe not.
Ford Motor Company is sitting fairly healthy at $50 billion dollars at the moment. (Mercedes is just a bit above at $70 Billion) - Both numbers grabbed from Mr. Google.

The Mercedes market and Lincoln market have some overlap.
And Mercedes has far more models than Lincoln. Some models that Lincoln will never build like the AMGs.
Plus, a boat load of sedans and wagons, which Ford Motor Company very publicly backed out of those body types some years ago.

Lincoln has 4 models, all SUVs. Or at least that is what Lincoln calls them. About 12% of all of the models that Mercedes produces. (35 models)
Heck, even Ford (cars) only has 8 models.
Lincolns sells about 1/3 number of units from what Mercedes sells. And Lincoln will likely continue on that path, because of outside factors. (The government for one)

Ford/Lincoln has played the game of building nearly everything that everyone wants in North America. They are no longer playing that game.
Ford is very focused on making what it sells and what sells well, with profit.
Kind of the reason for this thread.
The BK thing for the other companies in the 2010 era, and the electric vehicle noise that says everyone selling in this country has to make one, are very costly. And can be a bit risky.

I think we are in agreement. And I do not think Lincoln or Ford are going to jump back into market segments they have left so recently.
I would like to buy a personal luxury car. (aka Mark series) But I am old and unwilling to buy a new one. So unfortunately, that market segment is gone.

Action

 

[A Charles 9920]

Markets "rotate". Ford killed the Bronco and the Ranger.....years later they appear to be best sellers along with the Maverick. "Cars" will return one day but maybe not in my lifetime. No one knows more about the "math" associated with production, marketing and profits than the manufacturers. But that does not necessarily result in good decisions. Imports ("cars") are all over the streets and parking lots. There is a great demand for "cars". Ford just has not figured out how to deliver them. But back to the Navigator. "Tech" equates to high costs, questionable quality and potentially a significant factored in consumer satisfaction , especially if it cannot be repaired. Quirky features like digital scents are simply crazy. I read some time ago they were considering dropping the auto parallel parking feature due to cost. Don't know if that happened but I have had it on three vehicles and never used it once, yet it probably cost thousands in total and was of zero value. Focus on reliable drive trains, great contemporary styling and move the digital scent feature to the bathrooms of the plants (and maybe corporate offices). If people want fragrances they can get one of those little pine tree "thingys" to hang on the mirror (or elsewhere) at a 7-11 for $2.00. I love my Navigator as it sets gracefully in the drive way or on a parking lot but no so much as I drive it.

 

[lincoln4nis]

I hope they are listening. There has been many posts about what they should and shouldn't add, or improvements we as owners would like to see. Seeing as though the 2025s should be revealed soon, it's probably too late to implement some stuff but here's some things me personally hope they addresses with the new one or will on a later iteration.

- first and foremost, I feel as though either they need to put more development on the ride and handling team, or use a different platform. If most of us are going to pay 100k+ on a flagship vehicle, my passengers and I should get the smoothest and quietest ride possible. My 2020 feels too shaky, too harsh, too inconsistent, too flirty. My wife's 2022 45k suv shouldn't feel better than mines in terms of quietness or smoothness, and it being a truck based suv is not an excuse. Her suv does not feel better than my dads 22 escalade, another truck based suv and his is not fully loaded.

- hold dealers and service departments to higher standards. I'm paying for a luxury product but get mainstream service and labor.

- dont be afraid to add some features that the other lux brands offer, such as night vision, heated third row seats, power 2nd row seats, 2nd row window shades, digital rearview mirror, center console cooler.

I second this comment about ride quality and cabin quietness. I bought top of the line navigator (Black label L) costing over $130K . Driven very low 10K miles in last 2.5 years and the interior rattles and squeaks and makes all sorts of noises like a 10 year old vehicle. This is not expected of a flagship top of the line model and is very disappointing. Sending it to the dealer today in hopes they will be able to adjust / tighten body panels and trims in the cabin to make the rattling noises go away. As comparison my 7 year old 7 passenger Audi Q7 is still very quiet and has no rattles inside the cabin. I hope this post is being read and taken seriously.