Mark iii Fuel Tank Venting

danka

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My Lincoln
1969 Mark iii
Had a leak in my fuel tank so I recently purchased a new tank for my 1969 Mark iii. The new tank is for a 1970 Thunderbird, but is actually a perfect match except for one part. The original tank had a small pipe coming out of the top of the tank that connected to the fuel vent (expansion tank) in the trunk next to the spare tire. This new tank does not have that pipe so I've been trying to figure out the best way to vent the tank properly so as not to pull a vacuum when pumping fuel. I can think of three options to vent this tank.

1. solder original or new line from top of tank.
2. use bulkhead nipple fitting to create vent outlet to attach hose. Worried about washers wearing out and leaking fuel.
3. I've heard there are fuel sending units that also have a vent, but I'm not sure which one would be compatible with my tank and harness.

I also have no idea in what state the fuel vent (expansion tank) is in so I'm thinking I'm not gonna worry about fuel expansion and just vent the tank properly. If anyone has any experience with this problem or has a better solution, your advice would be greatly appreciated. thank you!
 
What you have discovered is the California emission package versus 49 state.
1970 FLM vehicles built to be delivered into the CA market had an emission package that was different than the other 49 states. In the truck area on the left had a cylindrical metal piece that extended into the trunk. In essence a closed fuel system. Versus the other states that had a fuel tank vented to outside air.

With that said I have a 70 Mark III and it is a 49 state version so I do not have that feature.

Suggestions -
Get a vented gas cap
If you are going to install a vent into a fuel system that has none, do it in the fuel filler neck. And towards the top. NOT the tank! The replacement tank is expensive, hard to come by (yours is not exactly correct and was not designed for venting so leaks can occur.

I have never seen a fuel tank sender unit with a vent. I have seen some with a return line for conversions to fuel injection that require a return line. The mid-1960s Continental with 430/462 engine had a 3 ported fuel pump with a return line as well. That sender will not fit.

Not sure I under stand your #2

More on tank venting -
There are two times to vent the tank. When filling and when not filling

When filling the tank the filler neck should be large enough in diameter that air comes out when liquid fuel is going in. Mostly because the gasoline station hose nozzle is regulated to be smaller in diameter to comply with Federal Regulation for unleaded fuel. Your car pre-dates that and has a fuel filler neck that is fairly wide. You will know that you have issues is the nozzle clicks off and the tank is not full. The fuel is getting backed up in the neck. There is not much to modify to fix this venting need

Venting when not filling comes in two parts. When the vehicle is running and when it not running. However, the solution for both is the same. The need is far less because less ai movement is required.
If it were me, I would look for a vented gas cap. A pre-1970 cap may work for this. It is the simplest and easiest method to over come the issue. Your vehicle will be emitting fuel vapor with two down sides. It pollutes some. (And personally I don't care) and it exposes your fuel to air which does not matter unless the vehicle sits for years without use. That will break down the fuel faster. Which may be why the tank was replaced because moisture in the air condensed out, settled at the bottom of the tank and did it's corrosive number.

If you decide to install a vent for the tank in the fuel filler neck, cut the hole on the upside of the neck. The downside will have liquid fuel when filling. Loop any venting hose in a 360 circle so any water or dirt can not make the loop and get into the tank. If you want to make it more secure put some type of filter on the end.

Action
 
What you have discovered is the California emission package versus 49 state.
1970 FLM vehicles built to be delivered into the CA market had an emission package that was different than the other 49 states. In the truck area on the left had a cylindrical metal piece that extended into the trunk. In essence a closed fuel system. Versus the other states that had a fuel tank vented to outside air.

With that said I have a 70 Mark III and it is a 49 state version so I do not have that feature.

Suggestions -
Get a vented gas cap
If you are going to install a vent into a fuel system that has none, do it in the fuel filler neck. And towards the top. NOT the tank! The replacement tank is expensive, hard to come by (yours is not exactly correct and was not designed for venting so leaks can occur.

I have never seen a fuel tank sender unit with a vent. I have seen some with a return line for conversions to fuel injection that require a return line. The mid-1960s Continental with 430/462 engine had a 3 ported fuel pump with a return line as well. That sender will not fit.

Not sure I under stand your #2

More on tank venting -
There are two times to vent the tank. When filling and when not filling

When filling the tank the filler neck should be large enough in diameter that air comes out when liquid fuel is going in. Mostly because the gasoline station hose nozzle is regulated to be smaller in diameter to comply with Federal Regulation for unleaded fuel. Your car pre-dates that and has a fuel filler neck that is fairly wide. You will know that you have issues is the nozzle clicks off and the tank is not full. The fuel is getting backed up in the neck. There is not much to modify to fix this venting need

Venting when not filling comes in two parts. When the vehicle is running and when it not running. However, the solution for both is the same. The need is far less because less ai movement is required.
If it were me, I would look for a vented gas cap. A pre-1970 cap may work for this. It is the simplest and easiest method to over come the issue. Your vehicle will be emitting fuel vapor with two down sides. It pollutes some. (And personally I don't care) and it exposes your fuel to air which does not matter unless the vehicle sits for years without use. That will break down the fuel faster. Which may be why the tank was replaced because moisture in the air condensed out, settled at the bottom of the tank and did it's corrosive number.

If you decide to install a vent for the tank in the fuel filler neck, cut the hole on the upside of the neck. The downside will have liquid fuel when filling. Loop any venting hose in a 360 circle so any water or dirt can not make the loop and get into the tank. If you want to make it more secure put some type of filter on the end.

Action
Hey Action, thank you for the response and information.

In regards to the vented gas cap I have two questions/concerns. From what I can discern "vented gas caps" come in two varieties. The first utilize an internal value to purge internal pressure from the tank and the second "vented gas caps" are vented via a hole with no value. Am I correct? Or do the value vented gas caps also allow atmospheric vent into the system as well? Secondly, and I've attached a photo to illustrate this potential issue, the filler pipe inlet on the gas tank comes from the side of the tank, thus there is a circumstance where, if vented through the gas cap, fuel will fill in the filler pipe creating an air pocket in the fuel tank. Is this something worth considering? I imagine this is why originally the tank was vented through the top of the fuel tank, attached photo. Also I've read fuel spillage can occur through the cap if vented, fuel tank full, and turning. Correct?

I originally assumed this replacement tank wasn't vented only to simplify production. You mentioned that this tank was not made to be vented. In your opinion then, just to clarify, you would not add any vent fitting to this fuel tank? FYI i would not be doing the welding, I found a good shop who I've spoken to who understand the problem and said they can weld a vent fitting on for me, pressure test, etc.

I'm not concerned about potential polluting, but I would like to minimize gas smell as much as possible. If in your experience with just having the vent with no canister doesn't create too much smell, then that's a great option. More to that thought, how were the non-california mark 3's vented? through the filler pipe? and where did they mount the vent?

Also, in general, in the service manual it states the vent canister also allowed expanded fuel to go somewhere. Is this something to consider? I dont believe this canister has any carbon in it. I believe it is just a baffled tank with a vent. Correct?

In conclusion these are my further questions:
1. If vented through cap: Correct vented fuel cap and potential air pocket problem, fuel expansion (should it be considered)
2. If vented through filler pipe: Mounting location (per non-california cars), similar air pocket problem as above, fuel expansion (should it be considered), process (weld fitting to run hose?)
3. If vented through the fuel tank: bad idea all together? type of venting (baffled canister (OE) or just a vent)?

Finally, I did pull the original canister off the car. Blew some compressed air through both ports and it did come out the other side. Is this canister good to go for reusing? I've been able to source after market baffled canisters, but obviously I would have to consider mounting and fitment and all that which could be avoided if I decide to go the canister route and can reuse the original.
 

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You are correct there are two kinds of venting for caps
One way and two way. And you may not have a choice
One way venting allows air in and not out. Usually a spring or a ball and seat. Both very small.
Two way is just an open hole with a baffle in the cap.

I would be looking for the two way vented cap. That cap is very old school. Any cap prior to 1968 will have this design. Unless it says non-vented. There are a few old caps that were not vented. Mostly because of fuel slosh on tanks that filled in the rear.

Fuel spillage can occur out the cap. However the design of this system along with full sized Ford & Merc of the era, that possibility is not high. Most side rear quarter panel filling arrangements are good about that. Versus out the back fuel filler necks

With an open system, smelling fuel under certain circumstances is possible.
For model year 1971, all tank venting went to a charcoal canister in the front of the vehicle and eliminated the cylinder thing in the trunk. Your 70 is an interim solution before the engineers got to an all states version. bank then there was an engineering team that addressed the CA laws and then applied the solution after the vehicle was designed. (Fix after design versus the other way around)

Likely there is a baffle under the vent pipe in the old tank. (just a guess) Welding a pipe to the new tank without the baffle isn't the best solution. A baffle would be needed to keep most of the liquid fuel out of the pipe. Fill the old tank with water and cut out the old pipe and post a picture. I have no vehicles with that arrangement. (I also have a 71 LTD and a 66 Merc that have a side quarter panel fuel fill.)

The canister is likely just hollow. It can be re-used and you have more experience than I. If you wanted to weld in a pipe, find a 71 and later donor car and get that tank venting with the charcoal canister. At some point there was a vacuum line to suck that vapor back into the engine. That would be the "Lincoln" of the period tank venting.

Action
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You are correct there are two kinds of venting for caps
One way and two way. And you may not have a choice
One way venting allows air in and not out. Usually a spring or a ball and seat. Both very small.
Two way is just an open hole with a baffle in the cap.

I would be looking for the two way vented cap. That cap is very old school. Any cap prior to 1968 will have this design. Unless it says non-vented. There are a few old caps that were not vented. Mostly because of fuel slosh on tanks that filled in the rear.

Fuel spillage can occur out the cap. However the design of this system along with full sized Ford & Merc of the era, that possibility is not high. Most side rear quarter panel filling arrangements are good about that. Versus out the back fuel filler necks

With an open system, smelling fuel under certain circumstances is possible.
For model year 1971, all tank venting went to a charcoal canister in the front of the vehicle and eliminated the cylinder thing in the trunk. Your 70 is an interim solution before the engineers got to an all states version. bank then there was an engineering team that addressed the CA laws and then applied the solution after the vehicle was designed. (Fix after design versus the other way around)

Likely there is a baffle under the vent pipe in the old tank. (just a guess) Welding a pipe to the new tank without the baffle isn't the best solution. A baffle would be needed to keep most of the liquid fuel out of the pipe. Fill the old tank with water and cut out the old pipe and post a picture. I have no vehicles with that arrangement. (I also have a 71 LTD and a 66 Merc that have a side quarter panel fuel fill.)

The canister is likely just hollow. It can be re-used and you have more experience than I. If you wanted to weld in a pipe, find a 71 and later donor car and get that tank venting with the charcoal canister. At some point there was a vacuum line to suck that vapor back into the engine. That would be the "Lincoln" of the period tank venting.

Action
Hey Action, thanks again for the response and information. It's been very helpful regarding this subjects that I've had some trouble finding good information on.

Here what I think I'm gonna do:

I'm gonna go ahead a try to vent this new tank I purchased via that shop I found. They seem like knowledge guys and their work looks good. I'll be sure to bring up everything you mentioned including venting this particular tank and see if they think there will be a problem. I imagine that even if this tank wasn't designed to be vented, venting it properly for both fuel pump circumstances, regular tank pressure build up, and filling up could still work. But we'll see. In regards to baffling on the original tank, there is none. I can see where the original vent fitting is connected to the tank and it is just the vent, so Ill have that shop recreate that exactly. I've been able to find after market, noncarbon baffled canisters, but they are kind of pricey. Chris Alston's Chassisworks, Inc.; Chassisworks - Vent Canister, Billet-Aluminum
Ill see what they say about reusing the old one. I imagine that'll be fine. I'm having the filler pipe regalvanized as a favor from a friend so I'm weary to add any fittings to it being that it might complicate the treatment. And the two-way vented cap does seem to be the easiest and least fickle solution, but maybe venting via a fitting on the tank is better. Or ill have double the headaches later on, we'll see. Either way, thanks again for taking the time to respond. I've seen some of your other responses on here and they are always thorough and informative. Hopefully you'll be able to help me out in the future again. Thanks.

Danka
 
Thanks for the Kudos.

As a favor would you post your journey with this? And pictures too!

Action
 
Update: I got the tank back from the shop today. After talking about it we decided to detach the original vent fitting of the old tank and weld it to the new tank. I will be reusing the old expansion canister as it seems to be functioning properly and this avoids me having to buy a surprisingly pricey replacement and deal with fitment. With this the tank looks basically OE. I attached a photo. I'll also be using a one-way vented cap to purge off any pressure build up in the filler pipe when the tank is full and the pipe has no access to venting. I'm stilling waiting on the filler pipe to get back from getting hot dip galvanized, which someone is doing for me as a favor, and I'm stilling waiting for the new fuel lines from classic tube, so not quite ready for install and testing, but I'm confident there should be no issues. However, if there are, I'll update here.
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Update: I got the tank back from the shop today. After talking about it we decided to detach the original vent fitting of the old tank and weld it to the new tank. I will be reusing the old expansion canister as it seems to be functioning properly and this avoids me having to buy a surprisingly pricey replacement and deal with fitment. With this the tank looks basically OE. I attached a photo. I'll also be using a one-way vented cap to purge off any pressure build up in the filler pipe when the tank is full and the pipe has no access to venting. I'm stilling waiting on the filler pipe to get back from getting hot dip galvanized, which someone is doing for me as a favor, and I'm stilling waiting for the new fuel lines from classic tube, so not quite ready for install and testing, but I'm confident there should be no issues. However, if there are, I'll update here.
I'm in the same situation now. Do you know what type of welder they used? I have a new MIG with mixed gas set up. I forgot I had my original tank patched and serviced years ago and it still looks pretty good so I may try and make my own vent tube, but I'm not sure what the best martial would be.
 
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