Looking at moving up from a '21 Subaru Ascent Touring and considering an Aviator Reserve or Hyundai Palisade Calligraphy and have several questions

[Patty T]

Thanks for any insights you can provide on the ’23 Aviator Reserve.

• AWD vs RWD and towing a boat – we infrequently tow about a 3700 lb center console about 10 miles each way on level ground. Boat ramp is concrete, reasonable angle but can get slippery. How well would the Aviator RWD do pulling it out, all things being equal? We’ve had AWD vehicles for the last 2 decades, but I also know how fun RWD can be as a daily driver, not to mention that AWD is more expensive and hurts the mileage. BTW, we’re in eastern NC so very flat and we can wait out any snow or sleet that we might get.
• What are your thoughts on the 22” tire upgrade and impact on mpg, noise and/or towing?
• I’ve found a pretty good deal on a fully loaded new ’23 Reserve out of state (Michigan). Is an 8% discount from msrp too good to be true or is that what people are seeing? I’m used to seeing ridiculous market adjustments on the Palisade. If I buy from out of state, does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to make that purchase (i.e. should I use a broker, any good shipping companies or fly up there and drive it back before the weather gets too cold and snowy)?
• Two biggest reasons for wanting an upgrade are the hard seats in the Ascent and the lane keeping assist. I’m sure the seats in the Aviator are top-notch, particularly with the luxury package, but how do you like the LKA (or the Aviator equivalent)? The Ascent pulls me too close to the center line for my comfort and I end up fighting it.

Thanks again – really looks like a beautiful car. Going to look at a local RWD tomorrow but it doesn’t have the options we would want – just hoping to get a sense for the overall size, fit and finish and road handling.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum Patty.
That's some thread title.
I've always been a fan of AWD and in this case it doesn't really matter because in Canada the AWD version is the only one available.
Personally, I don't like the look of 22" wheels. They remind me of the old west wagon train wheels. If I had a choice, I would even prefer 18" wheels over the 20". More sidewall flex to absorb bumps etc. not to mention they are less expensive. I have always purchased from a local dealer so I have no experience in out-of-state purchases. I find dealers are more likely to go the extra mile for a customer that bought from them. I don't like using Lane Keeping Assist or Lane Centering because so they are always turned OFF.
Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Peter

 

[jzweedyk]

If you opt for RWD and get stuck on the boat ramp, then what? Better to be safe than sorry.
I was very concerned about the 22" wheels coming from the off road community that wants a lot of sidewall. However I am pleasantly surprised how well it rides and corners. I think Lincoln did a great job on the suspension (I have the air suspension) and it rides way better than my friends Cadillac.
Lane centering works well, mine does have bias toward the center line, but I am now used to it. I like the button on the steering wheel so you can turn it on/off. I usually only use it on the freeway, as I am not a fan of the chime when it looses one line, although I understand why it does it.
I have the 30 way seats and they are great. Best seats of any vehicle I have owned, and I have owned a lot.
Price seems great, as out west they are usually adding a dealer markup, so a good deal is MSRP.

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

I can't believe the premiums people are shelling out for the Hyundai/iKia twins. They will be taking a bath on depreciation as a consequence of overpaying IMO.

As far as AWD is concerned, it's one of those "better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" options. Regarding the 22" wheels, my wife's Aviator came with them--the black painted ones which took a bit of getting used to until she acquired her first case of curb rash. There are plenty of places that repair painted rims, whereas the polished or chrome plated rims are harder to repair and sometimes have to just be replaced. Her vehicle also has AWD, Class IV hitch, engine block heater, none of which we will ever need or use, but Aviators in the colors she wanted were nearly non-existent and, when we saw this one in transit to the dealership, we put a deposit on it.

If you're buying out of state, it can be as easy as buying locally...even with taxes and licensing. Pretty much everyone's bank or credit union can be dealt with online, credit bureaus are all online, as is Ford Credit. There are motorized releases of title and registration that can be processed if you forget either of these documents.

Depending on how Michigan handles out of state transactions, you might be able to have the taxes collected for the state you live in and a temporary tag issued until you could get to your home state's DMV, or maybe even have the registration processed at the dealership. For example: several years ago, one of our sons was working in Louisiana and bought a new truck there. The entire registration process (for his permanent residence, AZ) was handled in LA , the plates were mailed to his residence and had to be forwarded.

Good luck

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[Patty T]

Welcome to the Forum Patty.
That's some thread title.
I've always been a fan of AWD and in this case it doesn't really matter because in Canada the AWD version is the only one available.
Personally, I don't like the look of 22" wheels. They remind me of the old west wagon train wheels. If I had a choice, I would even prefer 18" wheels over the 20". More sidewall flex to absorb bumps etc. not to mention they are less expensive. I have always purchased from a local dealer so I have no experience in out-of-state purchases. I find dealers are more likely to go the extra mile for a customer that bought from them. I don't like using Lane Keeping Assist or Lane Centering because so they are always turned OFF.
Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Peter

HA! My husband says I have too many words in my day, so I try to use some of them elsewhere!
After more thought on the AWD, we decided that's really the only smart option for towing a boat. Thinking we'll have to order the combination of what we really want, which is the luxury pkg, towing, and dynamic handling. I agree with you on the wheels.
We test drove the RWD today. It feels smaller than my Subaru even though it's actually a bit larger. Very nice ride, but I did notice the shifting through the 10 speeds. I found the lane keeping assist to be pretty good - it had more of a gentle drift towards the center lane vs a harder pull I feel from the Subaru. Now all I have to do is convince a local dealer they can sell for less than msrp!
Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Patty T]

If you opt for RWD and get stuck on the boat ramp, then what? Better to be safe than sorry.
I was very concerned about the 22" wheels coming from the off road community that wants a lot of sidewall. However I am pleasantly surprised how well it rides and corners. I think Lincoln did a great job on the suspension (I have the air suspension) and it rides way better than my friends Cadillac.
Lane centering works well, mine does have bias toward the center line, but I am now used to it. I like the button on the steering wheel so you can turn it on/off. I usually only use it on the freeway, as I am not a fan of the chime when it looses one line, although I understand why it does it.
I have the 30 way seats and they are great. Best seats of any vehicle I have owned, and I have owned a lot.
Price seems great, as out west they are usually adding a dealer markup, so a good deal is MSRP.

Thanks for the feedback. We drove the RWD drive today and the LKA is definitely better than in the Subaru, so that's one box checked. Seats were also very comfortable but just seemed a bit narrower than the Subaru. If we go the Aviator route, definitely getting the luxury pkg. I didn't use the Sync 3 much, but was pleasantly surprised that the controls were all pretty accessible either on the steering wheel or the console, and the heads-up display was much less distracting than I thought it might be. Overall a very nice vehicle.
And, yes, on the AWD - it's one thing to get stuck in the woods, it's quite another to get stuck on the bottom of the marina!

 

[bbf2530]

Thanks for the feedback. We drove the RWD drive today and the LKA is definitely better than in the Subaru, so that's one box checked. Seats were also very comfortable but just seemed a bit narrower than the Subaru. If we go the Aviator route, definitely getting the luxury pkg. I didn't use the Sync 3 much, but was pleasantly surprised that the controls were all pretty accessible either on the steering wheel or the console, and the heads-up display was much less distracting than I thought it might be. Overall a very nice vehicle.
And, yes, on the AWD - it's one thing to get stuck in the woods, it's quite another to get stuck on the bottom of the marina!

Hi PattyT and welcome to the Lincoln Forums. Regarding the seats: It is entirely possible that a previous test driver used the seat adjustment controls to adjust the seat in a way that would be uncomfortable for you. So if you did not previously do so, be sure to use the seat controls to "relax"/widen out the seat first, then adjust it to your liking.

And regarding the transmission: The Owners Manual states it can take the Adaptive Shifting Strategy of the transmission at least several hundred miles to adjust to your driving environment. So shifting will improve with use.

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

 

[Patty T]

Hi PattyT and welcome to the Lincoln Forums. Regarding the seats: It is entirely possible that a previous test driver used the seat adjustment controls to adjust the seat in a way that would be uncomfortable for you. So if you did not previously do so, be sure to use the seat controls to "relax"/widen out the seat first, then adjust it to your liking.

And regarding the transmission: The Owners Manual states it can take the Adaptive Shifting Strategy of the transmission at least several hundred miles to adjust to your driving environment. So shifting will improve with use.

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

Great input - thank you!

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[G-253748]

I can't believe the premiums people are shelling out for the Hyundai/iKia twins. They will be taking a bath on depreciation as a consequence of overpaying IMO.

As far as AWD is concerned, it's one of those "better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" options. Regarding the 22" wheels, my wife's Aviator came with them--the black painted ones which took a bit of getting used to until she acquired her first case of curb rash. There are plenty of places that repair painted rims, whereas the polished or chrome plated rims are harder to repair and sometimes have to just be replaced. Her vehicle also has AWD, Class IV hitch, engine block heater, none of which we will ever need or use, but Aviators in the colors she wanted were nearly non-existent and, when we saw this one in transit to the dealership, we put a deposit on it.

If you're buying out of state, it can be as easy as buying locally...even with taxes and licensing. Pretty much everyone's bank or credit union can be dealt with online, credit bureaus are all online, as is Ford Credit. There are motorized releases of title and registration that can be processed if you forget either of these documents.

Depending on how Michigan handles out of state transactions, you might be able to have the taxes collected for the state you live in and a temporary tag issued until you could get to your home state's DMV, or maybe even have the registration processed at the dealership. For example: several years ago, one of our sons was working in Louisiana and bought a new truck there. The entire registration process (for his permanent residence, AZ) was handled in LA , the plates were mailed to his residence and had to be forwarded.

Good luck

Thank you for the info, especially the out of state. Found one a bit closer to home that might be a good option but nice hear the Michigan wouldn't necessarily be too difficult from at least a paperwork standpoint.

 

[Patty T]

Well, we brought our 2023 Aviator Reserve AWD home today! It took a lot of calls and several cars sold out from under us while we were trying to get to non-local dealers, but we finally found a perfect flight blue with an option we didn't really want (larger tires) but it had every other option we wanted so we made the 7+ hour drive to MD to pick it up yesterday. Got it for $500 below msrp and with a reasonable doc/prep fee. Did all the financing work while we were in transit (1.9%/36 month pretty good deal in this mkt).
Have lots to read to figure everything out but I'm impressed with how intuitive the main layout is (although it did take awhile before I found the cruise control/lka cancel buttons on the right side of steering wheel).

A few things I'm going to have to dig into are the lane keeping assist and the best daily driving mode. LKA pulls a little too close to the lines for my liking, so going to see if there are ways to tweak that, and the cornering on non-banked back roads seems to be a bit loose. I was driving in Conserve mode. Does the cornering improve with a different mode?

BTW, interesting tidbit from the dealer. He mentioned that we probably got one of the last aviators with the luxury pkg for awhile because there's a shortage of the component needed for the massaging seats. Unlike the component issue with the liftgate that we're getting a credit for and a hope for a future fix, it seems any vehicle ordered with the luxury pkg is getting held up waiting for the component. Not sure if anyone's heard that or not or how true it might be, but thought I'd pass it along.

 

[inmanlanier]

Thanks for any insights you can provide on the ’23 Aviator Reserve.

• AWD vs RWD and towing a boat – we infrequently tow about a 3700 lb center console about 10 miles each way on level ground. Boat ramp is concrete, reasonable angle but can get slippery. How well would the Aviator RWD do pulling it out, all things being equal? We’ve had AWD vehicles for the last 2 decades, but I also know how fun RWD can be as a daily driver, not to mention that AWD is more expensive and hurts the mileage. BTW, we’re in eastern NC so very flat and we can wait out any snow or sleet that we might get.
• What are your thoughts on the 22” tire upgrade and impact on mpg, noise and/or towing?
• ......
• Two biggest reasons for wanting an upgrade are the hard seats in the Ascent and the lane keeping assist. I’m sure the seats in the Aviator are top-notch, particularly with the luxury package, but how do you like the LKA (or the Aviator equivalent)? The Ascent pulls me too close to the center line for my comfort and I end up fighting it.

1) 2WD vs. AWD: I'm going to venture out and disagree with some of the above 'better to have it than not'. Yes, I agree that if there are no downsides certainly get the better feature. However, I believe you're paying a price premium to get it. Is that the only reason you want AWD?

I've been towing boats that vary in weight from about your weight to approaching 7000 lbs. here in South Florida for 45 years. I've never towed with an AWD vehicle. I note that pickup trucks in 2WD have issues on steeper ramps; we always concluded that it's the light weight over the rear ends (some guys I know with trucks learned to put a lot of weight in their bed when pulling out of a ramp). I've used ramps in all forms - including those with algae on them. My cars have been late 70s vintage Olds '88s, late 90s Grand Marquis, Chevy Astro Vans (2 of them), Kia Sorrentos (3 of them), my Expedition and this car - all RWD except one. The only time I had an issue towing was when I gambled on my last Kia Sorento (FWD) on my local steep ramp with my heavier boat. The front tires had insufficient traction since they were at the wrong end of the car (front gets unloaded weight wise when pulling out of a ramp). I needed some help (a couple of guys pushing). The older RWD Kia Sorentos did fine pulling out of the water.

I can't imagine you'll ever have an issue with your vehicle pulling 3700#. My boat weight is typically 6000# and it pulls out of the water via my RWD Aviator with aplomb.

One thing folks have not mentioned is that the ECU has traction control features that are actually quite effective for pulling out of a ramp and tire slip. Ford's managed this well going back over a decade. You don't have a limited slip diff, but the computer will alternate wheels via brake application on the slipping wheel for torque delivery as needed if one starts to slip.

2) There are other posts where I've weighed in on tire size. All the tire sizes that come on the Aviator will do well and the suspension is specifically tuned for each one. Not wishing to poke the bear here I'll simply say I don't see any advantage to the larger wheels/tires (and this is a subject I have knowledge in). I respect differences in opinion, but I do not wish to get in a debate on this topic here. I'll gladly enjoin in private chats on the subject. My 20s do great both on the highway and towing locally. The car rides exceedingly well on trips and around town. In mountainous areas (North Carolina Continental Divide roads - very twisty) it handles great. I don't believe there is a published rating for any MPG difference; IMHO it would be imperceptible.

3) I initiated a post on this question because I had not understood the published literature (IMHO not very clear). During the post I finally learned the distinction between the two different functions - LKA and Lane Centering. LKA doesn't do a great job keeping you in the lane (it's not designed to). It's intended more as a warning function. I happen to think Lane Centering does a very good job, but there are other's that don't like it. You need a certain option package level to have Lane Centering (Copilot 360+ I believe). The subject post is here: Has anyone notice lane centering not centered?

 

[peterk9]

..............................
Have lots to read to figure everything out but I'm impressed with how intuitive the main layout is (although it did take awhile before I found the cruise control/lka cancel buttons on the right side of steering wheel).
..............................

Unless they changed the outlay of the steering wheel controls on the 2023, to cancel the Adaptive Cruise Control you only have to press the same button that you used to turn it ON located on the left side of the wheel.

Peter

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[G-228436]

Unless they changed the outlay of the steering wheel controls on the 2023, to cancel the Adaptive Cruise Control you only have to press the same button that you used to turn it ON located on the left side of the wheel.

Peter

I actually just wanted to turn off the lka/centering functionality w/o turning off the adaptive cruise control that includes the distance regulator. It seems that I would use the buttons on the right to do that.

 

[jzweedyk]

Cancel button cancels without deleting the set speed. Cancel is on the right side. The main button turns off cruise and you lose your settings.

 

[peterk9]

Cancel button cancels without deleting the set speed. Cancel is on the right side. The main button turns off cruise and you lose your settings.

You can do the same by just tapping the brake. I use the Adaptive Cruise Control with Speed Sign Recognition so for me when using ACC the speeds are always set anytime you turn it ON.

Peter

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

I prefer to use the cancel button. If, for example, I just passed an officer either running radar or watching traffic, and I might possibly have been exceeding the limit; hitting the brakes when they're in a position to see your brake lights go on could be interpreted as an acknowledgement of speeding and justification to be pulled over. In some jurisdictions, once pulled over your concern may shift from will I get a ticket to how many tickets will I get.

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[peterk9]

I prefer to use the cancel button. If, for example, I just passed an officer either running radar or watching traffic, and I might possibly have been exceeding the limit; hitting the brakes when they're in a position to see your brake lights go on could be interpreted as an acknowledgement of speeding and justification to be pulled over. In some jurisdictions, once pulled over your concern may shift from will I get a ticket to how many tickets will I get.

I understand what you are saying but just a slight tap of the pedal will turn it OFF. I have never been in a situation where I've had to "cancel" the ACC so I'll check into it a little more. My ACC speed is set at 9 km over the posted speed limit so there shouldn't be an issue about speeding as I've gone through radar setups before without issues. In 60 years of driving, I've received 1 speeding ticket at a minimum fine.

Peter

 

[dieselaman]

What was the ultimate reason you went this decision?

 

[peterk9]

What was the ultimate reason you went this decision?

Who is this directed at?

Peter

 

[peterk9]

I prefer to use the cancel button. If, for example, I just passed an officer either running radar or watching traffic, and I might possibly have been exceeding the limit; hitting the brakes when they're in a position to see your brake lights go on could be interpreted as an acknowledgement of speeding and justification to be pulled over. In some jurisdictions, once pulled over your concern may shift from will I get a ticket to how many tickets will I get.

Had a good look at the steering wheel setup and see now what was meant by the "Cancel" button. I haven't really paid much attention to the lower right side buttons before and was thinking that perhaps one had to use the little toggle switch on the upper right side. I see now how easy it is to use the "cancel" button.

Peter