Greetings...Sunroof/Gurgling Sound

[Tinmanwpk]

First post here. I'm quite familiar with car forums so after introducing myself I'll get into the potential issue at hand.

I currently own an Audi A7 for my wife, an Audi RS6 Avant for me, CTS-V wagon with manual as a garage queen and an '04 Chevy Trailblazer as a daily. The Trailblazer has served its purpose and my wife wants a new daily driver for us. This leads me to an Aviator.

We test drove a CPO 2023 Reserve with 25,000 miles yesterday. Nice car, could "be the one" if we arrive at a mutually agreeable price.

There is one major concern: there is gurgling as we drive. We had 5 inches of rain over 48 hours in NE Florida. At slow speeds we heard nothing, but when we hit the expressway at 60 mph we (salesperson, wife and myself) heard gurgling just above the driver's head about where the sun visor sits. No question it is water. However, no water stains on the headliner..

I'm familiar with sunroof drain and leaks as this is an issue with second generation Cadillac CTS sunroofs. We returned to the dealership and we all had a brief discussion. The salesperson took it upon themself to get the service director. He stated, "We see one or two of these every week", which is BS. But I do believe he has seen a few. He continues saying the drain exiting the front wheel well is somewhat horizontal and doesn't drain well. When the car gets to highway speed the air pushes the water back and up into the sunroof channel. They add an extension to the drain to curve it downward and back.

I have a little difficulty buying into this. It wasn't raining at the time and hadn't been raining much for an hour prior. Therefore, if the drain functions at all then the water should have been gone.

Am I overthinking this? Is the Service Director blowing smoke? Is this a major issue to the Aviator or just this car?

I appreciate everyone staying with me on this post. Thank you.

 

[moose66]

Howdy. This happened all the time when I had my '21 Aviator. During and after rain, I would get a gurgling sound for a while. At first, I had no idea what it was. I then thought it may be that water had seeped into the moonroof seals. Good guess I thought. But never had it looked at as eventually the sound would stop as the water had probably drained or dried. I always looked for leaks and never found any. I made sure I told the guy I sold the Avi to, to look out for this and not panic.

In the end, I just attributed it to a drain somewhere. As long as I had no sign of leaks, I could deal with the gurgling for a limited amount of time.

 

[Lincwitsync2]

Hello....Not sure if it's just a Ford/Lincoln supplier issue, but I truly believe sunroof/moonroof drainage is poor on newer vehicles. I say this because during heavy or soaking rainstorms while park in my sloped driveway (nose down) the drainage trays become overwhelmed AND LEAK inside. I have experienced this firsthand even after regularly blowing out the drains (Jeep Commander (2008), Lincoln MKX (2009), Lincoln MKS (2012/2016), and Ford Explorer (2019)). Of course, the Jeep was the absolute worst leaker.
Sunroof Manufacturers should put bigger drain tubes in the corners of these things. They are absolutely too narrow to keep up with the water that gets pass the sunroof gasket.

My Aviator had the same gurgling issue until the water drains. Fortunately, no leaks inside of the vehicle. Nowadays, I try to park nose up or on a level surface (if possible), that gurgling has not reoccurred.

Good Luck

Linc

 

[Eclecticuno]

Hello....Not sure if it's just a Ford/Lincoln supplier issue, but I truly believe sunroof/moonroof drainage is poor on newer vehicles. I say this because during heavy or soaking rainstorms while park in my sloped driveway (nose down) the drainage trays become overwhelmed AND LEAK inside. I have experienced this firsthand even after regularly blowing out the drains (Jeep Commander (2008), Lincoln MKX (2009), Lincoln MKS (2012/2016), and Ford Explorer (2019)). Of course, the Jeep was the absolute worst leaker.
Sunroof Manufacturers should put bigger drain tubes in the corners of these things. They are absolutely too narrow to keep up with the water that gets pass the sunroof gasket.

My Aviator had the same gurgling issue until the water drains. Fortunately, no leaks inside of the vehicle. Nowadays, I try to park nose up or on a level surface (if possible), that gurgling has not reoccurred.

Good Luck

Linc

I was super excited to get a Certified used 2020 Aviator Black Label from my local dealership last year. My excitement turned into regret when I experienced leaks at various points during a heavy rain. I had already taken it in because when the speed limit changed, the vehicle sped way past the limit. I did not yet realize it had a feature that allowed it, not only to automatically change the speed to the posted speed limit, but the driver also had the option to set it to go up to 10 miles above the limit. The service department noticed a musty smell and located sitting water in the spare wheel compartment and the equipment was totally rusted. They removed the water. Because of their finding, I gave the vehicle a closer look and found that both tail lights were full of water. The car went back to the shop and new tail lights were put in. No one could tell me where the water had come from! Months later during the heavy rain, I pretty much had an idea of where the water came from. I took my aviator back to the dealership, equipped with photos and videos of the water leaking, to have them take another look to determine where this water was coming from. They fully inspected my car and reported back to me that the drain tubes had blockage causing the leaks and I would have to have the drains blown out a couple times a year to prevent it from happening again. They also informed me that there was mold a damage which would cost me $900+ to have it repaired. I approached Lincoln in every manner short of legal action and it did no good! They didn’t even offer to pick up a part of the cost. I felt this was totally unfair as a fault in their design caused the damage.

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[Tinmanwpk]

Nice. Because of this we haven't bought a car yet.

 

[peterk9]

I was super excited to get a Certified used 2020 Aviator Black Label from my local dealership last year. My excitement turned into regret when I experienced leaks at various points during a heavy rain. I had already taken it in because when the speed limit changed, the vehicle sped way past the limit. I did not yet realize it had a feature that allowed it, not only to automatically change the speed to the posted speed limit, but the driver also had the option to set it to go up to 10 miles above the limit. The service department noticed a musty smell and located sitting water in the spare wheel compartment and the equipment was totally rusted. They removed the water. Because of their finding, I gave the vehicle a closer look and found that both tail lights were full of water. The car went back to the shop and new tail lights were put in. No one could tell me where the water had come from! Months later during the heavy rain, I pretty much had an idea of where the water came from. I took my aviator back to the dealership, equipped with photos and videos of the water leaking, to have them take another look to determine where this water was coming from. They fully inspected my car and reported back to me that the drain tubes had blockage causing the leaks and I would have to have the drains blown out a couple times a year to prevent it from happening again. They also informed me that there was mold a damage which would cost me $900+ to have it repaired. I approached Lincoln in every manner short of legal action and it did no good! They didn’t even offer to pick up a part of the cost. I felt this was totally unfair as a fault in their design caused the damage.

The 2020 Aviator does NOT have a speed limiter. Check your User Manual. I have mine set to 9 km/h (5.6 mph) over the limit. You can manually exceed that without any alarms. As for water intrusion, block drain tubes is an issue that can occur. This usually results in water pooling in the footwells depending upon which drains are blocked. Blocked drain tubes is not a design problem. I believe another member was told that the drain tubes are a user-maintenance responsibility, although I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. As for the mold, that should have been addressed as part of the Certification process IF it was present at the time. Hard to prove now.
It would be helpful if you added the year and make/trim of your Aviator to your profile so it appears in the margin of your posts.

Peter

 

[MattMacMan]

Service Advisor here. You don't want to use high pressure compressed air to "blow" debris out of the pano roof drains. They are simply connected tubes to a nipple and they can and will separate with high pressure air, next time it rains, itll drain right into the headliner which will ruin it immediately. And its very expensive to replace. They make sunroof/moonroof/pano roof drain cleaners that you can fit inside them and clean them the right way and safely. We see it often, people get a clog, think Ill use the air compressor....then all is good until the next time it pours and they have waterfalls all around them in the vehicle and its running down the pillars and all over electrical components. Not good.

Best way to clean these is to pull the vehicle into the garage and open the roof, and get a ladder and flashlight and clean the tray and drains with the proper tools. The rear ones can be finicky, but they are accessible.

The tool is essentially a plumbers snake. Google it, theyre readily available and cheap.

 

[Capt1njohn]

Service Advisor here. You don't want to use high pressure compressed air to "blow" debris out of the pano roof drains. They are simply connected tubes to a nipple and they can and will separate with high pressure air, next time it rains, itll drain right into the headliner which will ruin it immediately. And its very expensive to replace. They make sunroof/moonroof/pano roof drain cleaners that you can fit inside them and clean them the right way and safely. We see it often, people get a clog, think Ill use the air compressor....then all is good until the next time it pours and they have waterfalls all around them in the vehicle and its running down the pillars and all over electrical components. Not good.

Best way to clean these is to pull the vehicle into the garage and open the roof, and get a ladder and flashlight and clean the tray and drains with the proper tools. The rear ones can be finicky, but they are accessible.

The tool is essentially a plumbers snake. Google it, theyre readily available and cheap.

We have a 2019 Lincoln Nautilus. I had just got back from vacation and I went to drive my car to town. We got in it and it smelled musty to me. While we were on vacation there had been several fairly severe rain storms at our house. My wife opened up the rear hatch to see if anything was wet in the back or if there was something we left in the car. All of a sudden the Sub-woofer started making this loud feedback type chattering noise. My wife tapped on the speaker grill and the noise stopped.

We got in the car and drove it to town. Went grocery shopping and in the parking lot we started to head back home. As soon as I started the car up the same chattering started coming from the speaker. We opened up the rear hatch again and my wife tapped on the speaker grill several times and it would not stop. I turned the car off and it still kept making the chattering sound. I turn the radio on and turned the volume up and down and bass controls up and down and see if that would make the chattering noise stop but it did not help.

We drove home, unloaded the groceries and shut the hatch. Locked the car and the chattering from the sub-woofer kept going. I decided to move the car in front of my shop under a covering so I could get an idea of what was going on. I wanted to see if I disconnect the battery if the sound would stop. Then when I got the battery disconnected the sound stopped. Then I proceeded to try and access the sub-woofer. I wanted to see if removing the speaker wire would stop the sound and still allow the radio to work.

I finally figured out how to get to the sub-woofer and removed the wired connector from the sub-woofer. It was soaking wet, water was dripping from it. I noticed it looked like there was water on the inside of the right rear window in the cargo area. I tried to dry the wire off and blow it off with compressed air. Then I reinstalled the wire and hooked the battery back up. There was no sound. I thought great I got it. Then by the time I got back to the cargo area to put the interior back together the noise started back up and couldn't stop until I unplugged the sub-woofer again.

The radio worked with out the sub-woofer being plugged in, so I left it unplugged. I put the interior back together and decided while I had the car at the shop that I should vacuum it out, as it still had some sand in it from our last trip to the beach. Thats when I noticed the passenger side floorboard was soaking wet as well as the rear passenger on both sides. The driver floor board was dry. I took the mats out of the cargo area as well as the spare tire and everything by the spare tire was soaked too.

I could then see that water that I had seen earlier on the Right Rear cargo area window was continuing down behind the side panel and into the spare tire area as well as under both rear seats. The felt sound deadening under the side panel was soaked too and continued dripping. That's when I went to the Google university to find out what the fix was. Lots of stuff about plugged up sunroof drains. I found the front sunroof drains and I ordered sunroof drain tool from Amazon. I could not locate the rear sunroof drain.

Some youtube videos say you have to clean those out by pulling down the headliner and unhooking the hoses and cleaning them out. I dont know what drains are plugged yet as I have been letting the car sit with a heater and fans running inside it to dry the interior out. I removed about a quart of water from the carpet before I put the heater and fan in the car.

Do you know how to get to the rear sunroof drains from the sunroof area without removing the sunroof or the headliner? I see that you can access the rear sunroof drain where the water exits out on the ground by removing the rear wheel and the wheel well fender liner. I was going to try and get the snake tool up that tube as a last resort.

Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks John

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[MattMacMan]

We have a 2019 Lincoln Nautilus. I had just got back from vacation and I went to drive my car to town. We got in it and it smelled musty to me. While we were on vacation there had been several fairly severe rain storms at our house. My wife opened up the rear hatch to see if anything was wet in the back or if there was something we left in the car. All of a sudden the Sub-woofer started making this loud feedback type chattering noise. My wife tapped on the speaker grill and the noise stopped.

We got in the car and drove it to town. Went grocery shopping and in the parking lot we started to head back home. As soon as I started the car up the same chattering started coming from the speaker. We opened up the rear hatch again and my wife tapped on the speaker grill several times and it would not stop. I turned the car off and it still kept making the chattering sound. I turn the radio on and turned the volume up and down and bass controls up and down and see if that would make the chattering noise stop but it did not help.

We drove home, unloaded the groceries and shut the hatch. Locked the car and the chattering from the sub-woofer kept going. I decided to move the car in front of my shop under a covering so I could get an idea of what was going on. I wanted to see if I disconnect the battery if the sound would stop. Then when I got the battery disconnected the sound stopped. Then I proceeded to try and access the sub-woofer. I wanted to see if removing the speaker wire would stop the sound and still allow the radio to work.

I finally figured out how to get to the sub-woofer and removed the wired connector from the sub-woofer. It was soaking wet, water was dripping from it. I noticed it looked like there was water on the inside of the right rear window in the cargo area. I tried to dry the wire off and blow it off with compressed air. Then I reinstalled the wire and hooked the battery back up. There was no sound. I thought great I got it. Then by the time I got back to the cargo area to put the interior back together the noise started back up and couldn't stop until I unplugged the sub-woofer again.

The radio worked with out the sub-woofer being plugged in, so I left it unplugged. I put the interior back together and decided while I had the car at the shop that I should vacuum it out, as it still had some sand in it from our last trip to the beach. Thats when I noticed the passenger side floorboard was soaking wet as well as the rear passenger on both sides. The driver floor board was dry. I took the mats out of the cargo area as well as the spare tire and everything by the spare tire was soaked too.

I could then see that water that I had seen earlier on the Right Rear cargo area window was continuing down behind the side panel and into the spare tire area as well as under both rear seats. The felt sound deadening under the side panel was soaked too and continued dripping. That's when I went to the Google university to find out what the fix was. Lots of stuff about plugged up sunroof drains. I found the front sunroof drains and I ordered sunroof drain tool from Amazon. I could not locate the rear sunroof drain.

Some youtube videos say you have to clean those out by pulling down the headliner and unhooking the hoses and cleaning them out. I dont know what drains are plugged yet as I have been letting the car sit with a heater and fans running inside it to dry the interior out. I removed about a quart of water from the carpet before I put the heater and fan in the car.

Do you know how to get to the rear sunroof drains from the sunroof area without removing the sunroof or the headliner? I see that you can access the rear sunroof drain where the water exits out on the ground by removing the rear wheel and the wheel well fender liner. I was going to try and get the snake tool up that tube as a last resort.

Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks John

The sunroof has a drip pan that wraps all the way around the sunroof to catch water. Contrary to popular belief, sunroofs actually leak by design. If the sunroof was an airtight seal, it wouldnt open without ripping the gasket off the glass. Sunroofs are designed to slowly let water in, and the drip pan catches the drips and allows the water to drain to the outside of the vehicle. The only way to access the rear drains and theres 4 of them, one in each corner, (and theyre probably clogged in the pan itself so if you went the reverse cleaning route youd merely push the debris away from the drain hole until the next round of rain floats it right back anyway) is to take a flashlight and shine it in the rear corners. Its located near the track. If the glass is in the way, its only a few bolts to take the glass panel out of the roof, its far easier than youd think. Its merely bolted to a slide rail that rides the track itself. I think its all of 4 or 6 bolts, theyre on the left and right side of the glass. This will give you more room to work with. But I usually take a flexible straw from say a souvenir cup youd get at an amusement park for example, and tape it to a corner tool of a vacuum cleaner and slide it in there to vacuum the pan every quarter of the year, I havent had any leaks yet. And keeping the vehicle washed regularly (at least once a month) helps alot too. Do not used compressed air and when using the tool be careful not to shove it if you get resistance, because either method can pop the drain hose off the nipple side of the drip pan and this will let the drip pan drain right onto your headliner which will instantly ruin it. And headliners are EXPENSIVE. Especially the Black Label headliners since they are Alcantara Suede. I hope this helps.

 

[Capt1njohn]

The sunroof has a drip pan that wraps all the way around the sunroof to catch water. Contrary to popular belief, sunroofs actually leak by design. If the sunroof was an airtight seal, it wouldnt open without ripping the gasket off the glass. Sunroofs are designed to slowly let water in, and the drip pan catches the drips and allows the water to drain to the outside of the vehicle. The only way to access the rear drains and theres 4 of them, one in each corner, (and theyre probably clogged in the pan itself so if you went the reverse cleaning route youd merely push the debris away from the drain hole until the next round of rain floats it right back anyway) is to take a flashlight and shine it in the rear corners. Its located near the track. If the glass is in the way, its only a few bolts to take the glass panel out of the roof, its far easier than youd think. Its merely bolted to a slide rail that rides the track itself. I think its all of 4 or 6 bolts, theyre on the left and right side of the glass. This will give you more room to work with. But I usually take a flexible straw from say a souvenir cup youd get at an amusement park for example, and tape it to a corner tool of a vacuum cleaner and slide it in there to vacuum the pan every quarter of the year, I havent had any leaks yet. And keeping the vehicle washed regularly (at least once a month) helps alot too. Do not used compressed air and when using the tool be careful not to shove it if you get resistance, because either method can pop the drain hose off the nipple side of the drip pan and this will let the drip pan drain right onto your headliner which will instantly ruin it. And headliners are EXPENSIVE. Especially the Black Label headliners since they are Alcantara Suede. I hope this helps.

Thanks I appreciate the info. I just bought some Sunroof Drain cleaners from Amazon. They are a 4 foot coated cable that have a miniature bottle brush on the end of the cable you can push through the drain tube. I know I can access the front drains from the top but the rear drains I can only see with my borescope camera. I'm not sure I want to try taking the rear glass panel out to access the drains because that looks like the only way I could actually access them. I will try going up through the bottom and then blowing 20 psi of air to see if they are clear.

 

[tvanhall]

Thanks I appreciate the info. I just bought some Sunroof Drain cleaners from Amazon. They are a 4 foot coated cable that have a miniature bottle brush on the end of the cable you can push through the drain tube. I know I can access the front drains from the top but the rear drains I can only see with my borescope camera. I'm not sure I want to try taking the rear glass panel out to access the drains because that looks like the only way I could actually access them. I will try going up through the bottom and then blowing 20 psi of air to see if they are clear.

Be careful with air pressure. Previous posts on sunroof drain cleaning warned that connections can be "blown off" with air pressure, creating another problem.

 

[Capt1njohn]

Yes I agree, that's why I will only use 20 psi pressure and will not forcefully hold the air nozzle up against the hose.

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