Calling all Gen 4 Navigator Owners!!!

[LegacyFounder]

Hello everyone, I’m new here and have been contemplating buying a 2018-2021 or 22-24 navigator. I can find a really cheap 2019/2020 and refresh the entire powertrain and exterior, or just buy a better condition newer 2022-24 Navi.

My thoughts were if I had gotten them earlier years the goal was to upgrade everything like the full race form line kit, upgrade the coolant lines, engine oil pan, high volume oil pump, valve covers etc, also planned on replacing the transmission oil filter and pan. Or buy the newer year where some of those fixes have been made and just do early maintenance on it. What would be your take? Is the interior / exterior and tech updates really worth it on the 22-24 or would rebuilding a 18-21 be a better option?

I will have 3 children and my wife in the vehicle but I want to up the hp reliably so when I’m not with the family I can have fun as well. This will also be my company car so either way the build will be expensed through the business.

I’ve been searching around using AI and social media / forums and I can’t seem to find a source of power build for this chassis. I wanted to get everyone’s take who owns these and see if they have any experience with performance / reliability upgrades.

Also wanted to see if there is a master thread for the gen 4 navi.

If not, I’ll be starting my own Journey and may even considering starting a YouTube or IG just to deliver the content to everyone. I feel like the Navi is an amazing platform especially when buying used, but I also feel it’s severely under served as far as education and content goes.

 

[dlcorbett]

Being an owner of a 20 and now a 22, I 100% recommend going to a late 22 and newer. Those models fixed the powertain issues that plague the 21 and older trucks. Also, the 22s and newer ride substanially better than the older ones, granted you get the right tires on it. Speaking of, tires for some reason greatly affect how these trucks flow down the road, so get a really good tire if your able. The tech upgrades also make the 22s and newer that much better. I loved my 20, but had some some nagging issues and some things about it that annoyed me. The 22 has mainly fixed everything that annoyed me on the 20.

 

[driller]

That's a tough call. I think it would be a money pit extreme to modify the driveline but it sure could be fun.

Tuning, cold air intake, high-flow downpipes and a larger intercooler are common performance modifications for the later gen 3.5L eco-boost. You just don't see the Navigator modified much but the F150 and Raptor versions of the 3.5L eco-boost are generally the same.

The later model (2023-2024) Navigators do seem to have better engine/transmission reliability to start with. Ford Performance even has a calibration tuner that I have seriously considered for my '24. I would add oil catch cans and a larger core intercooler to enhance the turbo performance and longevity. Cooling system upgrades would be high on the list unless perhaps it came equipped with the HD trailer towing package. Either way I would install a Reische thermostat for the confidence factor. A Banks Pedal Monster throttle response controller and a Banks cold air intake kit would be on the short list.

Moving on to the exhaust would take some more research for the Navigator platform but basically you want to maximize the downpipes, install an exhaust EGT pyrometer and upgrade the exhaust throughput. Currently Rousch doesn't list any complete exhaust systems specific for our platform but I'm confident their F150 Raptor system could be emulated with their components.

Heliwig sway bars purportedly enhance the handling capability but I would love to do a full Raptor suspension swap with 18-20 inch wheels using BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A-KO2 tires.

We can dream.

 

[LegacyFounder]

That's a tough call. I think it would be a money pit extreme to modify the driveline but it sure could be fun.

Tuning, cold air intake, high-flow downpipes and a larger intercooler are common performance modifications for the later gen 3.5L eco-boost. You just don't see the Navigator modified much but the F150 and Raptor versions of the 3.5L eco-boost are generally the same.

The later model (2023-2024) Navigators do seem to have better engine/transmission reliability to start with. Ford Performance even has a calibration tuner that I have seriously considered for my '24. I would add oil catch cans and a larger core intercooler to enhance the turbo performance and longevity. Cooling system upgrades would be high on the list unless perhaps it came equipped with the HD trailer towing package. Either way I would install a Reische thermostat for the confidence factor. A Banks Pedal Monster throttle response controller and a Banks cold air intake kit would be on the short list.

Moving on to the exhaust would take some more research for the Navigator platform but basically you want to maximize the downpipes, install an exhaust EGT pyrometer and upgrade the exhaust throughput. Currently Rousch doesn't list any complete exhaust systems specific for our platform but I'm confident their F150 Raptor system could be emulated with their components.

Heliwig sway bars purportedly enhance the handling capability but I would love to do a full Raptor suspension swap with 18-20 inch wheels using BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A-KO2 tires.

We can dream.

I agree with everything you said, I’m in California but have friends outside of the state. I originally planned to go with the Livernois MyCalibration Tuner.

Here’s a full breakdown of what I plan on doing:

Parts planned to be installed:

Motor/oiling: All major timing components and inspecting to see if updated closed cam phasers are installed(if not replace with updated phasers), high pressure oil pump, aluminum oil pan, valve covers, plugs, dual vent catch can

Coolant: AN coolant line upgrade, all brand new molded coolant hoses, water pump, thermostat, aluminum coolant tank, new coolant cap, all fluids

Intake: cold air intake, hot and cold charge pipes, high mount intercooler, turbos

Exhaust: exhaust manifold, downpipes, 3 in exhaust (custom will be valved for comfort)

Fueling: hpfp, lpfp, all gaskets and hard lines, upgraded injectors

Drivetrain: aluminum transmission pan, transmission filter, all drivetrain fluids

Goal 500ish whp 91 or near 700ish on e85 tune.

Some of the work I’ll do myself, the rest I’ll be collaborating with local shops for content / partnerships for the chassis.

These are current thoughts, haven’t yet dove into consideration for suspension or brakes but this list will get updated.

This alone will put me in the 10-15k range worth of parts.

Even if I purchase the vehicle at 32k I’m still cheaper than my ideal low mileage 2023/24 with the same common coolant leak/oil leak/motor/transmission issues.

My ideal 2024 would run me about 60k. Resale on either will be about the same. Ironically I wasn’t doing the upgrades for performance purposes. More so reliability, but if I can squeeze more power reliably I want to be able to do so in a sleeper luxury dad-mobile.

______________________________

 

[LegacyFounder]

That's a tough call. I think it would be a money pit extreme to modify the driveline but it sure could be fun.

Tuning, cold air intake, high-flow downpipes and a larger intercooler are common performance modifications for the later gen 3.5L eco-boost. You just don't see the Navigator modified much but the F150 and Raptor versions of the 3.5L eco-boost are generally the same.

The later model (2023-2024) Navigators do seem to have better engine/transmission reliability to start with. Ford Performance even has a calibration tuner that I have seriously considered for my '24. I would add oil catch cans and a larger core intercooler to enhance the turbo performance and longevity. Cooling system upgrades would be high on the list unless perhaps it came equipped with the HD trailer towing package. Either way I would install a Reische thermostat for the confidence factor. A Banks Pedal Monster throttle response controller and a Banks cold air intake kit would be on the short list.

Moving on to the exhaust would take some more research for the Navigator platform but basically you want to maximize the downpipes, install an exhaust EGT pyrometer and upgrade the exhaust throughput. Currently Rousch doesn't list any complete exhaust systems specific for our platform but I'm confident their F150 Raptor system could be emulated with their components.

Heliwig sway bars purportedly enhance the handling capability but I would love to do a full Raptor suspension swap with 18-20 inch wheels using BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A-KO2 tires.

We can dream.

Do you happen to know what separates the F150/expedition/navigator chassis? I’m relatively new to this platform and was trying to piece together parts that could work for the chassis

 

[LegacyFounder]

Being an owner of a 20 and now a 22, I 100% recommend going to a late 22 and newer. Those models fixed the powertain issues that plague the 21 and older trucks. Also, the 22s and newer ride substanially better than the older ones, granted you get the right tires on it. Speaking of, tires for some reason greatly affect how these trucks flow down the road, so get a really good tire if your able. The tech upgrades also make the 22s and newer that much better. I loved my 20, but had some some nagging issues and some things about it that annoyed me. The 22 has mainly fixed everything that annoyed me on the 20.

Thank you for that input! I saw a lot of people hard hard shift issues and problems with the drum needing to be replaced on the 10r80e

Being an owner of a 20 and now a 22, I 100% recommend going to a late 22 and newer. Those models fixed the powertain issues that plague the 21 and older trucks. Also, the 22s and newer ride substanially better than the older ones, granted you get the right tires on it. Speaking of, tires for some reason greatly affect how these trucks flow down the road, so get a really good tire if your able. The tech upgrades also make the 22s and newer that much better. I loved my 20, but had some some nagging issues and some things about it that annoyed me. The 22 has mainly fixed everything that annoyed me on the 20.

If I read correctly the main difference is the cam phasers, tune, the drum in the transmission + coolers, and then some interior/exterior and other packages differences but the rest of the drivetrain and suspension stayed the same.

What do you feel separated the two enough to change the drivability, and do you feel that is something that is achievable if I’m replacing the parts i posted in this thread?

 

[dlcorbett]

The suspension was returned in 2022 to handle small bumps noticeably better, but as a side effect, the ride is also a bit more buoyant as well. The steering wheel was also tuned a bit but the difference is less noticeable. It mainly just depends on the person. Just put new tires on our new to us 22 and though my wife says she doesnt feel a difference, it feels substantially better to me.

 

[driller]

Do you happen to know what separates the F150/expedition/navigator chassis? I’m relatively new to this platform and was trying to piece together parts that could work for the chassis

Not first hand. I basically have a lot of similar questions myself.

Generally from what I have learned in my searches, the Expedition is obviously the closest compatible chassis wise but I'm thinking the biggest impediments are all the specific control modules that may or may not be the same. Dimensionally the Expedition and Navigator are identical and likewise the Max and the L. Whenever I search for something I may typically find it for the Expedition but come up empty looking for the same for the Navigator.

When it comes to the driveline, the foundation is going to be the same across the F-150/Expedition/Navigator but again, how the control modules interface may be different. Hard parts may transfer easily between the Expedition and Navigator but maybe not so much with the F-150.

I'm sure a lot of the intimate details involved would require custom work of some sort to make a modification on one platform work on another, but that shouldn't be a major deterrent.

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[akras]

I'm keeping my '18 and replacing/upgrading parts that affect reliability and comfort. You have a good plan (I wouldn't try to increase power, but I understand your choice). A few things that I would add based on my experience.

1. Go for 20" wheels. Planty of discussions on the topic here.
2. Tires are crucial. If snow/ice is not an issue, I prefer Pirelli Scorpions AS3 Plus; run them at ~35 psi if not towing. Great handling (for what the truck is) and much better ride compared to stock size/tire. You may want to size up to 275/60-20 for a bit more sidewall. This will bring the diameter to the diameter of '25 and up Navigators. I'll be doing that once my current tires are worn.
3. Front suspension. Most likely you will want to replace components there. Sway bar links tend to wear out and make noises, and replacing sway bar bushings is a must every now and then. Balljoints: they tend to wear and rattle. They won't be "bad" and "requiring replacement", but the vehicle won't feel new with old ones.
4. Differential oil. Front differential is a weak spot on all Navigators, at least the ones with single-speed transfer case (they keep the front diff spinning most of the time). Replace oil for heavier high quality oil. I went for Amsoil Severe Duty 75W-140 for the front diff and 75W-110 for the back (the latter is optional).
5. Unless you are buying an early '18, the engine tray will be aluminum, no change needed.
6. Replace AWE, without looking. The early trucks had junk ones, they like to disintegrate; Ford has issued an updated version, install those. Later Navigators switched to electrically activated AWEs, but I believe the older vacuum-operated ones are fine as long as you upgrade them to the later version. You may want to replace front hubs while you are there.
7. When replacing cooling hoses, replace the water pump and thermostat (with housing), as a preventative maintenance. Use aftermarket metal Y-splitters in both heater hoses: stock plastic ones are junk and crack over time. The aluminum crimps on (at least older version of) heater hoses like to split and leak. I would just go for Dorman heater hoses.
8. Transmission oil replacement. Note that even if you replace the pan and filter, most of the old ATF is going to stay in the transmission. So replace pan/filter, drive for a bit, and replace ATF again, then repeat. Each time you will be replacing 4-5 quarts out of the ~14 or so, so it will take a few rounds to actually replace most of it. You can do it in one go with a proper transmission flush, but I wouldn't do it (it can be risky).
9. Install magnetic drain plugs everywhere (engine, both diffs). The front diff doesn't have a drain plug, install a magnetic fill plug.

I'm probably missing something, but that what comes to my mind.