2023 Navigator Reserve Rough Ride

[breichert23]

What do you expect? It's on a truck frame.You bought a heavy vehicle on a truck frame.

Michelin tires ride much better than any other brand and believe me I have tried many over the years and keep coming back to Michelins. Give them a try and check your tire pressure. Good luck.

 

[DaveL123]

Hi Vics. That is a perfect example of the difference i was trying to explain to DaveL123 concerning the large variations in what people experience and describe as “city driving”.

If my math is correct, your driving averaged out to approximately 24-25 mph over the course of ~37 hours.

And Dave’s driving averaged out to approximately 6.5-7 mph over the course of ~11 hours. That is a major difference which would certainly explain Dave’s lower mpg’s.

Hope this all makes sense (and my math was correct).

Good luck.

Thanks, your math is pretty logical. I appreciate the help!

 

[JimbobH]

New to the forum and new to the Navigator. We purchased a 2023 Reserve a few days back and noticed that we can feel virtually every little bump on the road. Not being a fan of Pirellis, I fitted the car with Continental Cross Contacts which greatly improved the comfort on the highway and reduced road noise. However, around town, we still feel "every little" imperfection in the pavement? Is this just me, or am I describing something others are experiencing?

Thanks in advance for your feedback...

Dave

Hi Dave. I had a 2015 Navigator and it rode like a dream. My 2021 doesn’t ride as nice, I firmly believe the difference is the 22” rims and corresponding thin tire sidewalls. The 2015 Navi had 20” rims and thicker sidewalls to cushion the ride. Im thinking about going to 295 50R22s for more sidewall on the 22s. And also goto Michelins.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

Hi Dave. I had a 2015 Navigator and it rode like a dream. My 2021 doesn’t ride as nice, I firmly believe the difference is the 22” rims and corresponding thin tire sidewalls. The 2015 Navi had 20” rims and thicker sidewalls to cushion the ride. Im thinking about going to 295 50R22s for more sidewall on the 22s. And also goto Michelins.

Your post is quite a coincidence as I was looking at 20" tire and wheel takeoffs on line for our Navigator. Here are the specs Tire Size Comparison that show the difference between your stock 22" and the proposed 295/50R22's. the sidewall increases from 5" to 5.8" and I'm not sure you'll see a noticeable difference. If you do, please let us know.

Good luck...

Dave

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[dlcorbett]

I agree. I've driven a 2015 with the 20in wheels and it was one of the best riding cars I've ever been in

 

[Tahoe Dave]

I agree. I've driven a 2015 with the 20in wheels and it was one of the best riding cars I've ever been in

Here is one of many examples of F150 (bolt on) takeoffs 20" OEM Black Ford F150 Wheels 6x135 Fits Ford Expedition Kumho Tires - auto wheels & tires - by owner - vehicle... And here is the comparison chart for those 20" tires Tire Size Comparison You'll get 1.5" increase in the sidewall

 

[GBF1]

Hi Dave. I had a 2015 Navigator and it rode like a dream. My 2021 doesn’t ride as nice, I firmly believe the difference is the 22” rims and corresponding thin tire sidewalls. The 2015 Navi had 20” rims and thicker sidewalls to cushion the ride. Im thinking about going to 295 50R22s for more sidewall on the 22s. And also goto Michelins.

Agree with Jimbo. I love the truck but it’s the 22” rims.

 

[JimbobH]

Your post is quite a coincidence as I was looking at 20" tire and wheel takeoffs on line for our Navigator. Here are the specs Tire Size Comparison that show the difference between your stock 22" and the proposed 295/50R22's. the sidewall increases from 5" to 5.8" and I'm not sure you'll see a noticeable difference. If you do, please let us know.

Good luck...

Dave

I ran the comparison, sidewall on 20” is 6”, the 295s I’m thinking about is 5.8”. Pretty similar sidewall. And are wider.

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[G-190061]

The stock 22" rims are also quite a bit heavier than 20". This doesn't help the ride quality. Plus (or, rather, minus) air suspension...

 

[goduke15]

@Tahoe Dave
I've been reading this thread and your adventure since the very beginning. I have a 23 Navigator L BL and while I love the car, the ride quality is crap, too, compared to previous similar large SUV's like Mercedes that I've had. 20,000 miles later I'm wondering if I should move on or pull the trigger on a solution. Thinking about 20" wheels, but I've not seen many aftermarket ones that I can't get my head together on a combo of looks and price enough to try the 20" wheels instead. I like the look of the 22" and the pattern. Has anyone else found the sweet spot of a 20" wheel that would improve quality, AND still not drastically affect the look of the car? Would love pictures of anyone who has done this. Thanks!

 

[LegalBrief]

Scary to see the manufacturers pushing 24 now. Imagine being stuck on the side of the road and trying to man handle a 100# tire that 8” deep 2’6” across. I hope you can order the vehicles 100% loaded but with smaller wheels. The giant wheels I’m sure look good but the local tire store will not have them in stock, you will be stuck.

 

[dlcorbett]

Scary to see the manufacturers pushing 24 now. Imagine being stuck on the side of the road and trying to man handle a 100# tire that 8” deep 2’6” across. I hope you can order the vehicles 100% loaded but with smaller wheels. The giant wheels I’m sure look good but the local tire store will not have them in stock, you will be stuck.

For the navigator, the 24in wheels are stand alone options, not packaged items like the expedition. Also, the suspension, though not completely new, was modified heavily enough that parts arent interchangeable with prior years. I assume these changes help with small impact absorption and vibration. Why lincoln didn't advertise the suspension changes is beyond me. However. I would not get the 24s, even with air springs. Outside of drive, noise and weight issues, the amount of stolen wheels on these suvs will sky rocket what is already a huge amount.

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[Tahoe Dave]

@Tahoe Dave
I've been reading this thread and your adventure since the very beginning. I have a 23 Navigator L BL and while I love the car, the ride quality is crap, too, compared to previous similar large SUV's like Mercedes that I've had. 20,000 miles later I'm wondering if I should move on or pull the trigger on a solution. Thinking about 20" wheels, but I've not seen many aftermarket ones that I can't get my head together on a combo of looks and price enough to try the 20" wheels instead. I like the look of the 22" and the pattern. Has anyone else found the sweet spot of a 20" wheel that would improve quality, AND still not drastically affect the look of the car? Would love pictures of anyone who has done this. Thanks!

I finally took the plunge and installed a set of 20" tires and wheels. Having started this thread, it's only proper to report my initial impressions. First, I purchased them from a tire shop that specializes in "take-offs". The tire size is 275/60/20 which gives them about 1.5" more sidewall and about 1" less width and 1" taller (fills the wheel wells nicely) These came off a 2023 F150 and the tires Kumo Crugen HT51's had zero miles (top-shelf reviews from Tire Rack) The F150 wheels have the exact same bolt pattern (naturally) and of equal importance the same offset. However, if you buy an aftermarket wheel I'm told you can take some liberty with offsets. I measured the decibel level in route to the tire shop and it was about 74/75. I performed the same exercise with the new set and it was about 69/70. A more narrow tire will almost always make a bit less noise, of course this depends on the tread applications IE; off road v all season. The ride is notably better specifically, you still feel going over bumps and impurities however it far less harsh. These Navigators will NEVER ride as nice as an air suspension equipped vehicle. However, there is a big difference, as expected when you switch over to 20's. I tried to insert pictures and had no luck.

 

[dlcorbett]

I finally took the plunge and installed a set of 20" tires and wheels. Having started this thread, it's only proper to report my initial impressions. First, I purchased them from a tire shop that specializes in "take-offs". The tire size is 275/60/20 which gives them about 1.5" more sidewall and about 1" less width and 1" taller (fills the wheel wells nicely) These came off a 2023 F150 and the tires Kumo Crugen HT51's had zero miles (top-shelf reviews from Tire Rack) The F150 wheels have the exact same bolt pattern (naturally) and of equal importance the same offset. However, if you buy an aftermarket wheel I'm told you can take some liberty with offsets. I measured the decibel level in route to the tire shop and it was about 74/75. I performed the same exercise with the new set and it was about 69/70. A more narrow tire will almost always make a bit less noise, of course this depends on the tread applications IE; off road v all season. The ride is notably better specifically, you still feel going over bumps and impurities however it far less harsh. These Navigators will NEVER ride as nice as an air suspension equipped vehicle. However, there is a big difference, as expected when you switch over to 20's. I tried to insert pictures and had no luck.

Ford has been able to work miracles for their vehicles before, so I'm hoping they did the same for the my25 models. There are a lot of nice riding suvs on coils, like the genesis suvs, minivans, and the vw group suvs. The new armada has air springs and I think the current nav rides better, so it all comes down to tuning.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

I finally took the plunge and installed a set of 20" tires and wheels. Having started this thread, it's only proper to report my initial impressions. First, I purchased them from a tire shop that specializes in "take-offs". The tire size is 275/60/20 which gives them about 1.5" more sidewall and about 1" less width and 1" taller (fills the wheel wells nicely) These came off a 2023 F150 and the tires Kumo Crugen HT51's had zero miles (top-shelf reviews from Tire Rack) The F150 wheels have the exact same bolt pattern (naturally) and of equal importance the same offset. However, if you buy an aftermarket wheel I'm told you can take some liberty with offsets. I measured the decibel level in route to the tire shop and it was about 74/75. I performed the same exercise with the new set and it was about 69/70. A more narrow tire will almost always make a bit less noise, of course this depends on the tread applications IE; off road v all season. The ride is notably better specifically, you still feel going over bumps and impurities however it far less harsh. These Navigators will NEVER ride as nice as an air suspension equipped vehicle. However, there is a big difference, as expected when you switch over to 20's. I tried to insert pictures and had no luck.

Drove the vehicle for 100 miles, wife thinks it's "no better, maybe worse..." All my research, running around and dropping $1250 bucks, CRAP!!!

 

[dlcorbett]

Drove the vehicle for 100 miles, wife thinks it's "no better, maybe worse..." All my research, running around and dropping $1250 bucks, CRAP!!!

Noo...dang it maybe time to trade her in. No sense in paying so much for a car your not enjoying.

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[Mark-P]

My heavy towing season is over for now so dropped my 21 nav L tire PSI back down to 33 PSI. It is amazing how much better it rides.

I should look up the load table rating for the stock hankooks at 33 PSI.

Not much different sidewall appearance or squat and still handles well.

I am guessing it’s over 1600 lbs or whatever 1/2 a lightly loaded rear axle is.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

My heavy towing season is over for now so dropped my 21 nav L tire PSI back down to 33 PSI. It is amazing how much better it rides.

I should look up the load table rating for the stock hankooks at 33 PSI.

Not much different sidewall appearance or squat and still handles well.

I am guessing it’s over 1600 lbs or whatever 1/2 a lightly loaded rear axle is.

Are they 22" ?

 

[dlcorbett]

My heavy towing season is over for now so dropped my 21 nav L tire PSI back down to 33 PSI. It is amazing how much better it rides.

I should look up the load table rating for the stock hankooks at 33 PSI.

Not much different sidewall appearance or squat and still handles well.

I am guessing it’s over 1600 lbs or whatever 1/2 a lightly loaded rear axle is.

Agreed, if your not sport driving, 34-35 is a really got spot for a compliant ride.

 

[Mark-P]

Are they 22" ?

Yes they are.