2023 Navigator Reserve Rough Ride

[LegalBrief]

Road Force Balance (made by Hunter) is the key.. it simulates speed, if a tire won't spin up on a road force balancer it never will. Many tire or dealer shops do not have “road force” balancers.

If the “road force” says the tires and rims are good then its something else.

 

[dlcorbett]

I will say I put pirellis on my truck and as far as ride is concerned, I'm a bit disappointed. My tires were bad when I got my truck, and the old tires rode better and were quieter than the pirellis brand new. They don't absorb the road as well and don't filter the road textures as well either. The truck itself rides pretty good though. Would I like it to rode better in some cases, yea, but overall, the ride is comparable or better than most other vehicles.

 

[rlflesh]

Had my third repair attempt today and they did nothing. Say it is "normal". I had a 2022 Navi Reserve loaner with same size wheels and tires (285/45/22) but different tires (General Grabber) and it wasn't outstanding as I would expect of a six digit vehicle but far, far better than my new 2023 Black Label. I am totally disillusioned with my Black Label since you really don't want to drive it at highway speeds (75-low 80's) for more than 10 minutes. Leg shaking from accelerator, steering wheel vibration, .... Absolutely unbelievable. Starting the LL process then mediation as necessary.

 

[tgara]

Had my third repair attempt today and they did nothing. Say it is "normal". I had a 2022 Navi Reserve loaner with same size wheels and tires (285/45/22) but different tires (General Grabber) and it wasn't outstanding as I would expect of a six digit vehicle but far, far better than my new 2023 Black Label. I am totally disillusioned with my Black Label since you really don't want to drive it at highway speeds (75-low 80's) for more than 10 minutes. Leg shaking from accelerator, steering wheel vibration, .... Absolutely unbelievable. Starting the LL process then mediation as necessary.

Dont go nuclear just yet. You’ll regret it because the Lemon Law rules drastically limit what Ford can do. Try a buyback first. Several folks here have done it successfully.

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[Tahoe Dave]

Totally understand your frustration as for myself, well I started this topic. There are two items that appear to be at issue. The first, these Navigators have substandard ride quality. This pertains to a bumpy, hard less than comfortable experience on any road with minor flaws. Most roads around town qualify for that description. The second item is high speed vibrations, which is a different issue. I have owned tire stores and currently consult for AAA on repair subjects. High speed vibration is caused by an out of balance or harmonic vibrations. It is almost always tires however, can sometimes be caused by other rotating objects. Specifically, the wheels or the driveshaft. If there was a bent component in the driveline it would vibrate at any speed. If there is an out of balance condition, by way of example one ounce at 60 mph is equivalent to 8 pounds through centrifugal force!

 

[LegalBrief]

I don't know... You bought a very expensive truck, (It's 100% a truck underneath) didn't you test-drive it first? If you look around other forums, there are huge problems with most of their other Luxury brands, GW has a rear vibration and bad software, escalade has bad engines, BMW levees customers are stranded, and RR has horrific software. It seems to apply to all brands.

Lemon Law is very specific; read your states carefully. I'd encourage you to try another dealer, take the technician on a drive, so they can see what you are talking about, and go to a shop with a Hunter Road Force balancer. As @TahoeDave said, it's a quick process of elimination, but they need to be in sync with you.

My 2023 was doing a 100 today, with Pirelli Weather Active (not OEM tires), and not an issue.

 

[rlflesh]

I don't know... You bought a very expensive truck, (It's 100% a truck underneath) didn't you test-drive it first? If you look around other forums, there are huge problems with most of their other Luxury brands, GW has a rear vibration and bad software, escalade has bad engines, BMW levees customers are stranded, and RR has horrific software. It seems to apply to all brands.

Lemon Law is very specific; read your states carefully. I'd encourage you to try another dealer, take the technician on a drive, so they can see what you are talking about, and go to a shop with a Hunter Road Force balancer. As @TahoeDave said, it's a quick process of elimination, but they need to be in sync with you.

My 2023 was doing a 100 today, with Pirelli Weather Active (not OEM tires), and not an issue.

It is a truck chassis. But ... I have had multiple rental/loaner vehicles over the past couple of years including this week (Denali, Expedition, Navi, QX80, ....) on truck chassis that I have driven on interstate for extended periods and NONE had the vibration issues this 2023 Navi of mine has. I did test drive it of course but not on interstate and probably did not get above 60mph. Shame on me clearly, but it never dawned on me that there would be a "normal undesirable driving characteristic" (their service write-up) on Ford Motor Co's most expensive and prestigious vehicle. And I checked and this Lincoln dealer has the Hunter Road Force balancer and used it on my vehicle. I still can't really believe this is their answer - it's "normal" Challenge now is what to do. I understand if I do Lemon Law it taints the value even more if I am not successful. Mediation is also an option but presumably at my cost.

 

[bbf2530]

It is a truck chassis. But ... I have had multiple rental/loaner vehicles over the past couple of years including this week (Denali, Expedition, Navi, QX80, ....) on truck chassis that I have driven on interstate for extended periods and NONE had the vibration issues this 2023 Navi of mine has. I did test drive it of course but not on interstate and probably did not get above 60mph. Shame on me clearly, but it never dawned on me that there would be a "normal undesirable driving characteristic" (their service write-up) on Ford Motor Co's most expensive and prestigious vehicle. And I checked and this Lincoln dealer has the Hunter Road Force balancer and used it on my vehicle. I still can't really believe this is their answer - it's "normal" Challenge now is what to do. I understand if I do Lemon Law it taints the value even more if I am not successful. Mediation is also an option but presumably at my cost.

Hi rlflesh. Just concerning the "...if I do Lemon Law it taints the value even more if I am not successful." part of your post: No, that is not the case, unless possibly you are dealing with an extremely OCD buyer who dives deep into public records. The average buyer will not know about, find out about, research or ask about the Lemon Law. And if you are asked by a buyer, you can honestly tell them there is nothing wrong with the vehicle, because that is what you have been told by Lincoln.

That is an oversimplified answer of course, but short story is an unsuccessful Lemon Law case does not "taint the value".

Good luck.

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[dlcorbett]

If you can, you should drop to 20 in wheels or get thicker tires for your truck. If your gonna keep it, you can do some things to it to make the ride better, but those are the easiest. A lot of ppl on the expy forum do this with positive results.

 

[rlflesh]

I gave up. Dealer and Ford acknowledged a problem but said they didn't have an answer or remedy. The highway ride was totally unacceptable really for any vehicle but particularly for a top of the line Lincoln with six figure MSRP. Other vehicles have 22" wheels and don't have this problem. It's something more/worse than tires or alignment. Bought a new Escalade to replace the Navi. The difference is like night and day. It's what the Navi is supposed to be. Ford/Lincoln have no shame to sell that vehicle with the known ride quality issue. They changed something that caused this problem. As I noted in another post, a 2022 loaner was ok. And I have driven each of the big body on frame SUVs from GMC, Chevy, Infiniti and now the Cadillac and none of them have the "normal undesirable driving characteristic". Absolutely ridiculous. (and I have owned three Lincolns before this so I am not a Lincoln basher). 2023 Navi Black Label is a LEMON. And don't ever buy anything from Germain Lincoln in Naples

 

[LegalBrief]

@rlflesh Sorry to see you go. Good luck

 

[GRR]

Had my third repair attempt today and they did nothing. Say it is "normal". I had a 2022 Navi Reserve loaner with same size wheels and tires (285/45/22) but different tires (General Grabber) and it wasn't outstanding as I would expect of a six digit vehicle but far, far better than my new 2023 Black Label. I am totally disillusioned with my Black Label since you really don't want to drive it at highway speeds (75-low 80's) for more than 10 minutes. Leg shaking from accelerator, steering wheel vibration, .... Absolutely unbelievable. Starting the LL process then mediation as necessary.

I have the same issue. Had back to dealer 4 times. On third set of tires. Michelins this time. Road force balanced twice. Same issue. It must be a mechanical problem. Lincoln will not stand behind the vehicle. Admit that they have an issue, but not rectify. Next step is legal action?

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[RAINEY]

I just viewed a YouTube piece on the 2023 Navigator, it was the typical walk around and features overview. This particular one included a "test drive" and the presenter commented on the ride which he said was slightly marginalized because the one tested had a heavy duty towing package, as such a stiffer suspension. Ours has the HD towing package, so I'm wondering if...?

This might be the reason. Mine had the HD Tow Package. It has "LT Pickup Truck/Light Truck tires which will ride more harshly than the "P rated Passenger" tires. P rated tires will have more sidewall flex, be much quieter and ride nicer.

 

[dlcorbett]

I'm sorry you're going through this. Is it the best ride, no but my truck is 3 yrs old and has 85k miles. With those in mind, I can't praise how great the ride is 80% of the time.

 

[Chaz Man]

I have looked at all kinds of 2019 and 2020 Lincoln Continentals and virtually all have Goodyear Eagle tires on them. I've learned that those tires have a foam built into them that helps with quieting the tires, etc. ....but in my time I've always found Goodyears to be relatively inferior tires and definitely not the quietest and never known much for a
smooth ride. I've become a big fan of Pirelli's on my Fusions (initially had General's) and brand new Buick LaCrosse (came with Bridgestone's). Without a doubt, the Pirelli's deliver a smoother and quieter ride than any of the other tires had used (including Michelin's (Premier A/S), Continental's(LX's, and DWS's as well as

 

[HiTechRedneck]

I changed from Goodyear with only 5,000 miles on them to Pirelli Scorpion with great results. Mine is a 20 BL so maybe something has changed in the suspension in recent years. Mine also has the heavy duty towing package which I would have thought produced a harsher ride but it has not.

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[Phillyphan19]

I just bought a 2023 Navi a month ago. When I took it for a test drive and it wasn’t a very far drive but I had mentioned that I felt a vibration to the salesman but I didn’t think much of it bc this is a dealer I deal with pretty much 90% of the time when I buy a new vehicle so I didn’t think it would be a issue getting it taken care of if there really was an issue. Bought it and noticed that yes it indeed has a vibration issue especially at higher speeds and my commute is 50 miles one way. Called the service dept at the dealer and had to wait 2 weeks for an appointment. After taking the mechanic for a ride he agreed that there was a vibration and there were problems with the General tires that Lincoln puts on the navigator and most likely will replace. Three days later they call me and say the nav was all done that they road forced balanced all 4 tires and drove it 5 miles and everything seem ok. After I picked it up I noticed that it indeed had not been fixed and actually was worse. Now I’m being told that Lincoln will not replace the tires and these are normal riding conditions. Normal riding conditions for a 10 yo car maybe but not a brand new Lincoln Navigator!! Still waiting to hear back from the dealer but nothing about this vibration is NORMAL! Especially for their flagship luxury vehicle! Anyone else have this issue with their tires?

 

[rlflesh]

I just bought a 2023 Navi a month ago. When I took it for a test drive and it wasn’t a very far drive but I had mentioned that I felt a vibration to the salesman but I didn’t think much of it bc this is a dealer I deal with pretty much 90% of the time when I buy a new vehicle so I didn’t think it would be a issue getting it taken care of if there really was an issue. Bought it and noticed that yes it indeed has a vibration issue especially at higher speeds and my commute is 50 miles one way. Called the service dept at the dealer and had to wait 2 weeks for an appointment. After taking the mechanic for a ride he agreed that there was a vibration and there were problems with the General tires that Lincoln puts on the navigator and most likely will replace. Three days later they call me and say the nav was all done that they road forced balanced all 4 tires and drove it 5 miles and everything seem ok. After I picked it up I noticed that it indeed had not been fixed and actually was worse. Now I’m being told that Lincoln will not replace the tires and these are normal riding conditions. Normal riding conditions for a 10 yo car maybe but not a brand new Lincoln Navigator!! Still waiting to hear back from the dealer but nothing about this vibration is NORMAL! Especially for their flagship luxury vehicle! Anyone else have this issue with their tires?

see all my notes on this thread as well as others. It's a known problem that they characterize as "normal". Multiple similar vehicles in service dept for same issue when i was in (three separate times). Swapped tires, balanced, .... and they quit and said it is normal. Everyone who got in the car said what is wrong with this vehicle. $115k sticker Navi Black Label. I finally caved when I realized it was a known issue they had no remedy for and traded for an Escalade which is wonderful. I started the Lemon Law process but it was absurdly slow and not clear anything was going to result since they were officially saying it was normal. Hate it for you, and others, but don't think there is a fix. They messed something up on the '23's (one of my loaners was a '21 and it didnt have the problem).

 

[rlflesh]

see all my notes on this thread as well as others. It's a known problem that they characterize as "normal". Multiple similar vehicles in service dept for same issue when i was in (three separate times). Swapped tires, balanced, .... and they quit and said it is normal. Everyone who got in the car said what is wrong with this vehicle. $115k sticker Navi Black Label. I finally caved when I realized it was a known issue they had no remedy for and traded for an Escalade which is wonderful. I started the Lemon Law process but it was absurdly slow and not clear anything was going to result since they were officially saying it was normal. Hate it for you, and others, but don't think there is a fix. They messed something up on the '23's (one of my loaners was a '21 and it didnt have the problem).

 

[CruiseGuy24]

I just bought a 2023 Navi a month ago. When I took it for a test drive and it wasn’t a very far drive but I had mentioned that I felt a vibration to the salesman but I didn’t think much of it bc this is a dealer I deal with pretty much 90% of the time when I buy a new vehicle so I didn’t think it would be a issue getting it taken care of if there really was an issue. Bought it and noticed that yes it indeed has a vibration issue especially at higher speeds and my commute is 50 miles one way. Called the service dept at the dealer and had to wait 2 weeks for an appointment. After taking the mechanic for a ride he agreed that there was a vibration and there were problems with the General tires that Lincoln puts on the navigator and most likely will replace. Three days later they call me and say the nav was all done that they road forced balanced all 4 tires and drove it 5 miles and everything seem ok. After I picked it up I noticed that it indeed had not been fixed and actually was worse. Now I’m being told that Lincoln will not replace the tires and these are normal riding conditions. Normal riding conditions for a 10 yo car maybe but not a brand new Lincoln Navigator!! Still waiting to hear back from the dealer but nothing about this vibration is NORMAL! Especially for their flagship luxury vehicle! Anyone else have this issue with their tires?

I would try another dealer if you can. Also ask for the road force balance result numbers to see how low they are.