2023 Navigator Reserve Rough Ride

[Tahoe Dave]

I know what dlcorbett is describing, "The body is constantly jittering, and the body cranks on the frame on some bumps. It's also loud while absorbing cracked pavement..." She goes in next week for a road test and diagnostic. I have already set my expectations that I'm going to hear, "we find nothing wrong" I've experimented and lowered the PSI to 35lbs cold. This has improved the problem artificially which confirms that the vehicle is not designed to absorb road impurities. Once again, on smooth roads no matter the mph it rides like a dream. bottom line, I accept the current state or calculate my losses if I buy (trade in) for a different vehicle.

 

[dlcorbett]

If your looking for a more car like ride, you may have to go bmw x7, however, big bump absorption is lacking and its softer than the lincoln. The gls isnt much better. If you want a truck like ride with slightly more absorption, the escalade and lx600 are lauded for their ride. The infiniti qx80 is probably the most balanced lux feeling ride in the segment though.

 

[NavigatorPro]

General Motors does have airbag suspension combined with Magnetic Ride. However airbags are known to leak and 3 times the expense as a standard suspension. If you want complete absorption you need bags.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

Update...

Concierge service picked-up the Nav yesterday and I received a call this morning from the Service Manager. They found that the "left rear strut is leaking..." and suspect that this is causing the described problem. A replacement unit is on order and will arrive in approximately two weeks.

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[stroker87]

I had the last gen escalade and jumping into a 22 navigator the ride is much more luxurious, mine does not rattle shake or anything (knock on wood) yes you can feel bumps but it's better to me than the current gen escalade or other GM big SUV's to me anyway, did your rovers have the 22" wheels on it? I usually go aftermarket wheels on my vehicles and every time i installed 22" wheels (upgrading from 17, 18 or 20 inch wheels) over the years always firmed up the ride as well as upped the handling, I find Michelin tires have always had the best ride quality, quietest and most milage out of a set of tires

 

[Tahoe Dave]

I had the last gen escalade and jumping into a 22 navigator the ride is much more luxurious, mine does not rattle shake or anything (knock on wood) yes you can feel bumps but it's better to me than the current gen escalade or other GM big SUV's to me anyway, did your rovers have the 22" wheels on it? I usually go aftermarket wheels on my vehicles and every time i installed 22" wheels (upgrading from 17, 18 or 20 inch wheels) over the years always firmed up the ride as well as upped the handling, I find Michelin tires have always had the best ride quality, quietest and most milage out of a set of tires

Thanks for the comparison narrative, it makes me feel a bit better because I was wondering about the Escalade's ride quality. The Range Rover had 21" tires which may, in part explain the different feel. Add to that, Range Rovers have air suspension which I believe also makes a difference.

 

[Evreux]

Dave, you are correct in your outline of stating the issue with poor ride quality for your navigator. I just bought a new 2023 Navigator Black Label... and this thing rides like log wagon.... maybe the log wagon rides better! 114k and I am exceptionally unhappy. I drove a Nav Reserve first and it drove very nicely. I rode along with the sales guy in the one I bought... but ya know he was driving unusually slow on the highway, like 50 mph. It was just a short 1 mile ride then back to the dealer, and I didn't notice and horrible ride quality issues. Boy I sure do notice it now - heavy road vibrations, exceptionally hard thumps for highway irregularities, the passenger shakes driving down a smooth highway, so much road vibration that the passenger side door panel rattles. Not a happy camper for 114k. Im going to send it back to the Lincoln dealer and get a different vehicle. Maybe a Ford Expedition, or something like that. No more Lincolns for me.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

Dave, you are correct in your outline of stating the issue with poor ride quality for your navigator. I just bought a new 2023 Navigator Black Label... and this thing rides like log wagon.... maybe the log wagon rides better! 114k and I am exceptionally unhappy. I drove a Nav Reserve first and it drove very nicely. I rode along with the sales guy in the one I bought... but ya know he was driving unusually slow on the highway, like 50 mph. It was just a short 1 mile ride then back to the dealer, and I didn't notice and horrible ride quality issues. Boy I sure do notice it now - heavy road vibrations, exceptionally hard thumps for highway irregularities, the passenger shakes driving down a smooth highway, so much road vibration that the passenger side door panel rattles. Not a happy camper for 114k. Im going to send it back to the Lincoln dealer and get a different vehicle. Maybe a Ford Expedition, or something like that. No more Lincolns for me.

Comforting to know that I'm not going crazy. As previously reported, I immediately changed the tires and it helped a bit. Add to that, the dealer replaced a leaking rear strut. However, the bottom line is, it rides like crap for a "top of the line" luxury SUV. The only exception is the ride quality on a well groomed, nearly flawless road. Anything short of that, it's a hold on to your hat!

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[dlcorbett]

Comforting to know that I'm not going crazy. As previously reported, I immediately changed the tires and it helped a bit. Add to that, the dealer replaced a leaking rear strut. However, the bottom line is, it rides like crap for a "top of the line" luxury SUV. The only exception is the ride quality on a well groomed, nearly flawless road. Anything short of that, it's a hold on to your hat!

Was your ride not fixed after getting the strut replaced?

My wife and I drive a grand wagoneer over the weekend. It rides different, and is very nice. Overall, not much of an improvement over my 20 nav with 83k miles on it.

Hopefully yall get yalls ride fixed. I agree, for such an expensice vehicle, they shouldve taken the teuck out of it a bit better, but i do realize its still a truck. It's funny how ones experience and vary so great with the same vehicle. I will say some days are better than others on my nav, one day it'll glide over everything, another it rides like the tires for rocks in them. Overall, even on the "uncomfortable" days, it still rides well. Even compared to the newer truck based suvs, the difference isn't t huge enough to make me want them.

 

[CruiseGuy24]

Dave, you are correct in your outline of stating the issue with poor ride quality for your navigator. I just bought a new 2023 Navigator Black Label... and this thing rides like log wagon.... maybe the log wagon rides better! 114k and I am exceptionally unhappy. I drove a Nav Reserve first and it drove very nicely. I rode along with the sales guy in the one I bought... but ya know he was driving unusually slow on the highway, like 50 mph. It was just a short 1 mile ride then back to the dealer, and I didn't notice and horrible ride quality issues. Boy I sure do notice it now - heavy road vibrations, exceptionally hard thumps for highway irregularities, the passenger shakes driving down a smooth highway, so much road vibration that the passenger side door panel rattles. Not a happy camper for 114k. Im going to send it back to the Lincoln dealer and get a different vehicle. Maybe a Ford Expedition, or something like that. No more Lincolns for me.

I had a problem with my 23 where at highway speed, most notably when you hit 75mph, there is a bad vibration. I noticed this from almost day 1 but I was not able to work with the dealer on it until I had 1500 miles or so. Dealer drove it and agreed it should be better. Went to road force balance and 3 of 4 were way out. They could not be corrected. They got approval to replace the tires with the same brand (General) and when they came in, they failed road force balance brand new. The dealer went and drove every one they had and they all had vibration except for one. That one had Pirelli tires. All other had General tires. After some back and forth they got Lincoln to agree to swap with Pirelli’s and it no longer has any vibration at all. It drives fantastic on the highway.

 

[Tahoe Dave]

I had a problem with my 23 where at highway speed, most notably when you hit 75mph, there is a bad vibration. I noticed this from almost day 1 but I was not able to work with the dealer on it until I had 1500 miles or so. Dealer drove it and agreed it should be better. Went to road force balance and 3 of 4 were way out. They could not be corrected. They got approval to replace the tires with the same brand (General) and when they came in, they failed road force balance brand new. The dealer went and drove every one they had and they all had vibration except for one. That one had Pirelli tires. All other had General tires. After some back and forth they got Lincoln to agree to swap with Pirelli’s and it no longer has any vibration at all. It drives fantastic on the highway.

I initially had the same problem and I purchased, out of my own pocket new tires. They are Continental Cross Contacts and it resolved the high speed vibration. I did this in part because we have a second home in the Sierra's and Pirelli's are useless in snow. They also improved the ride quality somewhat however, it still rides rough over ANY road imperfection no matter how small. I believe the bottom line is that the Navigator sits atop an F150 suspension. This is perhaps a good thing for towing and overall stability. It however is inconsistent as it relates to those of us who are looking for the Luxury SUV experience. In fairness, there are numerous features such as seating comfort, infotainment, cargo space, body style lines etc,, that rival our prior $140K Range Rover. If the ride quality was better, this would be an out of body experience. Instead, I'm disappointed every time I travel on some of California's crap roads.

 

[dlcorbett]

There is something I do when I feel my truck is riding less than optimally. It may seem counter intuitive but it works for me atleast.

As I stated before, there are times when the ride is worse than normal, the dampers feel too stiff but the springs arent adjusted accordingly(i know the spring rates dont change, but somehow the springs do react to the damper changes in each specific mode to help body motion), so every bump causes pitchy motions. When it does this, I like to change the dampers to sport mode. I change the modes pretty often on my truck already. Personally, I like eco (comfort) on highways as the rocking sensation isnt noticed as much but the bump absorption is better, normal on byways as its not as floaty as eco on pavement changes, and sport (excite) on city streets and wavy pavement for the body control. What I noticed however, is that in sport, the dampers actually resist the pitchy movements more effectively than any other mode and the firmness on top of the weight gives the truck better dampening on small pockmarked roads. Also, it seems to me that the bushings add to the jitteriness, as eco mode makes the truck jiggle more than the others on bumps though its more compliant. In sport, only the repeated broken pavement and deep holes shakes the body. Also, since the rear ends is tightened, it doesnt seem like the rear of the body clanks on the frame as much. By driving in this mode for a good amount of time before cycling and switching back to eco or normal, the dampers retain the pitch resistance and slowly loosens up, almost like a soft reset. As a result, it feels more compliant without the shakiness, but it also doesn't feel rocky or pitchy. And hell, if it's already riding like shit, might as well take the handling benefit in sport mode then.

Your mileage may vary, as your trucks are newer, and iirc, the 22s I drove were firmer but more compliant than what I have. Hopefully, You're able get it fixed or get it to your liking. Only other advice I can give is to go 20s for the wheels. My wife and I test drove many truck based suvs, including a grand wagoneer this weekend, she said our 20 nav felt better on the road to her. On city roads, admittedly, her 22 cx9 is a bit better as it doesnt shake and crash over potholes as much, but on the hwy, we'd take the nav 9 times outta 10 (not to mention they avg the same gas mileage on the highway), its just so much nicer when it wants to be.

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[Tahoe Dave]

There is something I do when I feel my truck is riding less than optimally. It may seem counter intuitive but it works for me atleast.

As I stated before, there are times when the ride is worse than normal, the dampers feel too stiff but the springs arent adjusted accordingly(i know the spring rates dont change, but somehow the springs do react to the damper changes in each specific mode to help body motion), so every bump causes pitchy motions. When it does this, I like to change the dampers to sport mode. I change the modes pretty often on my truck already. Personally, I like eco (comfort) on highways as the rocking sensation isnt noticed as much but the bump absorption is better, normal on byways as its not as floaty as eco on pavement changes, and sport (excite) on city streets and wavy pavement for the body control. What I noticed however, is that in sport, the dampers actually resist the pitchy movements more effectively than any other mode and the firmness on top of the weight gives the truck better dampening on small pockmarked roads. Also, it seems to me that the bushings add to the jitteriness, as eco mode makes the truck jiggle more than the others on bumps though its more compliant. In sport, only the repeated broken pavement and deep holes shakes the body. Also, since the rear ends is tightened, it doesnt seem like the rear of the body clanks on the frame as much. By driving in this mode for a good amount of time before cycling and switching back to eco or normal, the dampers retain the pitch resistance and slowly loosens up, almost like a soft reset. As a result, it feels more compliant without the shakiness, but it also doesn't feel rocky or pitchy. And hell, if it's already riding like shit, might as well take the handling benefit in sport mode then.

Your mileage may vary, as your trucks are newer, and iirc, the 22s I drove were firmer but more compliant than what I have. Hopefully, You're able get it fixed or get it to your liking. Only other advice I can give is to go 20s for the wheels. My wife and I test drove many truck based suvs, including a grand wagoneer this weekend, she said our 20 nav felt better on the road to her. On city roads, admittedly, her 22 cx9 is a bit better as it doesnt shake and crash over potholes as much, but on the hwy, we'd take the nav 9 times outta 10 (not to mention they avg the same gas mileage on the highway), its just so much nicer when it wants to be.

This is an interesting approach and while it sounds "counter intuitive" I'm in! I totally agree that there are times when the ride is worse and it is on similar roads? So, today will be day one of toggling through the ride selections. Thanks for your suggestion and stay tuned...

 

[LegalBrief]

I had a problem with my 23 where at highway speed, most notably when you hit 75mph, there is a bad vibration. I noticed this from almost day 1 but I was not able to work with the dealer on it until I had 1500 miles or so. Dealer drove it and agreed it should be better. Went to road force balance and 3 of 4 were way out. They could not be corrected. They got approval to replace the tires with the same brand (General) and when they came in, they failed road force balance brand new. The dealer went and drove every one they had and they all had vibration except for one. That one had Pirelli tires. All other had General tires. After some back and forth they got Lincoln to agree to swap with Pirelli’s and it no longer has any vibration at all. It drives fantastic on the highway.

Road Force Balance is the key.. it simulates speed, if a tire won't spin up on a road force balancer it never will. Many tire or dealer shops do not have road force balancers

As for tires, we are a total snow family, it's all about winter. I had Cooper AT34S on my last SUV (it came with Good Year Eagles (awful traction with no sidewall resistance)), and I liked the look (presence) of the AT34S. I then after the bad winter got a new (2023) pickup truck with OEM Pirelli Verde. Verde is just an all-season radial tire. My tire shop was adamant that the Michelin Cross Climate 2 was the only way to go (I have not had a winter season yet to test them, but they drive well dry).

The 2023 Navi, also came with OEM Pirelli Verde, and winter is on the way. No waiting, a ton of research, and was torn between the AT34S, Cross Climate 2, and the new Pirelli Weather Active.

Ultimately decided on the Pirelli Weather Active, I'm not 100% sure why, they do ride well dry, and should be great in rain. BTW - All are 3 Peak Snow Rated, and the Pirelli's 4 Season.

 

[Bentwire]

I have a '23 Reserve and switched out the OEM Perelli Verde All Seasons for Michelin Crossclimates. I definitely agree, with the 22" wheels the Navigator does ride rougher than one would hope. Given a choice, I've always run smaller diameter wheels with more sidewall height if available, but I didn't custom order this car.
Has anybody changed wheels in the newer Nav from the standard 22s to 21s or 20s with good results in the ride??

 

[rlflesh]

New to the forum and new to the Navigator. We purchased a 2023 Reserve a few days back and noticed that we can feel virtually every little bump on the road. Not being a fan of Pirellis, I fitted the car with Continental Cross Contacts which greatly improved the comfort on the highway and reduced road noise. However, around town, we still feel "every little" imperfection in the pavement? Is this just me, or am I describing something others are experiencing?

Thanks in advance for your feedback...

Dave

I have a 2023 Navi Black Label and am extremely disappointed with the ride. All is well until say 65mph. Then vibration begins particularly as you get to 75mph and beyond. Accelerator pedal vibration, steering wheel vibration, you look right and see the passenger seat shaking. The Blue Cruise weaves. Totally unacceptable on the highway and gets very old very quickly. They put a new set of tires on it (upgraded Pirelli's to replace base Pirelli's) and did a 4-wheel alignment, and still it has vibration. They wrote up the service order as a "normal undesirable ride characteristic". Hard for me to accept an undesirable ride characteristic as "normal" on a vehicle with a $115k MSRP. Also, the loaner Navi they brought me with 30k miles does not have the vibration. Three Navi's in the same Service Dept with same complaint. Something not right but they have no response.

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[rlflesh]

Road Force Balance is the key.. it simulates speed, if a tire won't spin up on a road force balancer it never will. Many tire or dealer shops do not have road force balancers

As for tires, we are a total snow family, it's all about winter. I had Cooper AT34S on my last SUV (it came with Good Year Eagles (awful traction with no sidewall resistance)), and I liked the look (presence) of the AT34S. I then after the bad winter got a new (2023) pickup truck with OEM Pirelli Verde. Verde is just an all-season radial tire. My tire shop was adamant that the Michelin Cross Climate 2 was the only way to go (I have not had a winter season yet to test them, but they drive well dry).

The 2023 Navi, also came with OEM Pirelli Verde, and winter is on the way. No waiting, a ton of research, and was torn between the AT34S, Cross Climate 2, and the new Pirelli Weather Active.

Ultimately decided on the Pirelli Weather Active, I'm not 100% sure why, they do ride well dry, and should be great in rain. BTW - All are 3 Peak Snow Rated, and the Pirelli's 4 Season.

I have the same vibration issue with my 2023 Navi Black Label and others in the Service Dept with same problem. Mine came from the factory with Pirelli Verde's which rate very poorly on tirerack (5.8 on 1-10 scale) and they replaced with a much higher rated set of Pirelli's but still have the vibration and extremely unhappy given the $115k MSRP and ridiculously poor ride quality at highway speeds. It's in now for third repair attempt but they didn't do anything. The loaner they brought me (2022 Navi with General Grabber tires) does not have the vibration so not sure it is a tire issue.

 

[rlflesh]

I have a '23 Reserve and switched out the OEM Perelli Verde All Seasons for Michelin Crossclimates. I definitely agree, with the 22" wheels the Navigator does ride rougher than one would hope. Given a choice, I've always run smaller diameter wheels with more sidewall height if available, but I didn't custom order this car.
Has anybody changed wheels in the newer Nav from the standard 22s to 21s or 20s with good results in the ride??

 

[rlflesh]

i also have vibration at highway speeds and is in now for third repair attempt. They replaced the OEM Pirelli Verde tires a higher rated set of Pirelli's and did a 4-wheel alignment but still have the unacceptable highway vibration which their service order characterized as a "normal undesirable driving characteristic". On the most expensive luxury vehicle Ford Motor Co/Lincoln sells?? Very, very unhappy. Ten minutes of highway driving and want to put it away.

 

[dlcorbett]

i also have vibration at highway speeds and is in now for third repair attempt. They replaced the OEM Pirelli Verde tires a higher rated set of Pirelli's and did a 4-wheel alignment but still have the unacceptable highway vibration which their service order characterized as a "normal undesirable driving characteristic". On the most expensive luxury vehicle Ford Motor Co/Lincoln sells?? Very, very unhappy. Ten minutes of highway driving and want to put it away.

If the loaner nav didnt have vibration issues, now you know that the truck you have is behaving abnormal. That doesn't sound like a truck thing, that sounds like something else and the dealer doesn't want to fix it.