2022 Aviator Rough Ride?

[rjabend]

I'm going to disagree in the context of a factory suspension - regardless of tire size - will be as smooth as they wish it to be. They can and do make 21" tires ride silky smooth just as well as a 16" tire. There are quite a few components in the entire suspension that contribute to harshness; several in the tire alone (belt design, belt material, number of plies, etc.).

The harshness of the ride described by MLG85 is a problem - plain and simple. These cars are designed to have very supple rides. If they don't - something is amiss. Our standard reserve suspension is silky smooth.

He should be able to simply go to the dealership, get in another Aviator (same trim/suspension) and back to back see the difference. No way these things ride that bad as designed by the factory.

Not my area of expertise prompting a question: In general, will a larger sidewall dimension contribute to a softer ride?

 

[inmanlanier]

Way too many variables to pin it on one attribute. Sidewall stiffness varies dramatically based on the over design and mission of the tire.

You can have soft short sidewalls and tall very stiff sidewalls and vice - versa.

I watched Ford engineers rent space from my bud in town years ago when the first Taurus was being developed. They would make the mules/prototypes more than 1 year in advance of production and then test the mules all around the country. They would change entire suspensions 6 times a day iterating on different tires, bushings, springs, sway bars, etc.

It all comes down to what they are targeting for that particular trim option on that particular car.

 

[rjabend]

Way too many variables to pin it on one attribute. Sidewall stiffness varies dramatically based on the over design and mission of the tire.

You can have soft short sidewalls and tall very stiff sidewalls and vice - versa.

I watched Ford engineers rent space from my bud in town years ago when the first Taurus was being developed. They would make the mules/prototypes more than 1 year in advance of production and then test the mules all around the country. They would change entire suspensions 6 times a day iterating on different tires, bushings, springs, sway bars, etc.

It all comes down to what they are targeting for that particular trim option on that particular car.

Thanks! You have a really thorough knowledge of ride factors and their complexity and I have now been further educated.

 

[bbf2530]

Not my area of expertise prompting a question: In general, will a larger sidewall dimension contribute to a softer ride?

Hi rjabend. Yes, apples to apples, a larger sidewall ratio will contribute to a "softer"/smoother ride.

So as an example of an apples to apples comparison: Take two of the exact same Lincoln Aviators. The only difference being wheel size and tire sidewall ratio.

One Aviator is equipped with 21" wheels and 265/40-21 Michelin ABCD tires. And the other Aviator is equipped with 18" wheels and 265/55-18 Michelin ABCD tires.

The Aviator with the 18" wheels and 265/55 Michelin ABCD tires will ride softer.

Yes, of course there are other variables, but it is easy to eliminate other variables, since we are discussing using different size wheels/tires on the exact same vehicle, not two theoretically different vehicles.
So if you have 21" wheels on your vehicle, and downsize the wheels/upsize the sidewall correctly in order to maintain proper overall wheel/tire diameter, (one size up in sidewall for each inch smaller in wheel size), with the same make/model tire, the ride will be softer. This is established wheel/tire science.

EDIT- I forgot to add: The real question is whether the improvement in ride comfort offered by going to smaller wheels/larger sidewall ratio tires will be worth the somewhat expensive cost of 4 new wheels and 4 new tires. So test driving an example with smaller wheels before spending the money would be a very good idea. Doing so may also help an owner figure out if there is a suspension or other problem causing their perceived rough ride.

Good luck.

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[jzweedyk]

My 2023 Reserve with dynamic handling rides like a limo and it is on 22" wheels. While I am new to Lincoln, other vehicles with "live" shocks will go stiff if the communication with the "brain" is lost. This could explain the rough ride as the shocks will not absorb any bumps. I would have the dealer check it out. 4 year warranty should cover it. Being from the off road community, I am fully aware of small wheels and large sidewalls to absorb bumps, and I was skeptical of 22" inch wheels, but pleasantly surprised on how well it rides. Lincoln has done a remarkable job with the suspension. Corners flat, rides smooth.

 

[miffedatlincoln]

Hi rjabend. Yes, apples to apples, a larger sidewall ratio will contribute to a "softer"/smoother ride.

So as an example of an apples to apples comparison: Take two of the exact same Lincoln Aviators. The only difference being wheel size and tire sidewall ratio.

One Aviator is equipped with 21" wheels and 265/40-21 Michelin ABCD tires. And the other Aviator is equipped with 18" wheels and 265/55-18 Michelin ABCD tires.

The Aviator with the 18" wheels and 265/55 Michelin ABCD tires will ride softer.

Yes, of course there are other variables, but it is easy to eliminate other variables, since we are discussing using different size wheels/tires on the exact same vehicle, not two theoretically different vehicles.
So if you have 21" wheels on your vehicle, and downsize the wheels/upsize the sidewall correctly in order to maintain proper overall wheel/tire diameter, (one size up in sidewall for each inch smaller in wheel size), with the same make/model tire, the ride will be softer. This is established wheel/tire science.

EDIT- I forgot to add: The real question is whether the improvement in ride comfort offered by going to smaller wheels/larger sidewall ratio tires will be worth the somewhat expensive cost of 4 new wheels and 4 new tires. So test driving an example with smaller wheels before spending the money would be a very good idea. Doing so may also help an owner figure out if there is a suspension or other problem causing their perceived rough ride.

Good luck.

The cost is the question. I'm sick from our new Nautilus reserve's ride...stock suspension with 20" wheels.
My only option was downsize to hopefully help. Dealer said I could buy from them at cost. Wheels were $3600 alone!

I really hope there's a manufacturing issue that gets public, but unlikely. Just lousy engineering to keep costs down.

 

[moose66]

The cost is the question. I'm sick from our new Nautilus reserve's ride...stock suspension with 20" wheels.
My only option was downsize to hopefully help. Dealer said I could buy from them at cost. Wheels were $3600 alone!

I really hope there's a manufacturing issue that gets public, but unlikely. Just lousy engineering to keep costs down.

The ride is making you sick? Maybe another dumb question, or two, and certainly not trying to be a smart a$$ . . . . . . . .but did you not test drive the vehicle before you purchased? Or has the ride changed drastically since you have owned the vehicle?

 

[bbf2530]

The cost is the question. I'm sick from our new Nautilus reserve's ride...stock suspension with 20" wheels.
My only option was downsize to hopefully help. Dealer said I could buy from them at cost. Wheels were $3600 alone!

I really hope there's a manufacturing issue that gets public, but unlikely. Just lousy engineering to keep costs down.

Hi mal. Yes, we have addressed the cost issue, which is why I strongly advise test driving a Nautilus with 18" or 19" wheels before spending the money for new wheels and tires. It is a personal decision whether the incremental added ride comfort is worth the cost.

Additionally, there is the option of purchasing aftermarket wheels instead of factory wheels. You can get very good aftermarket wheels for far less than what the Dealer will charge for factory wheel "cost".

EDIT- You also need to make sure you get tires which are highly rated for ride comfort, as opposed to handling and tread life. Smaller wheels and taller sidewall tires can make a large difference, but try to make sure it is a big enough difference for you, before spending the money. And make sure your tires are not overinflated.

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

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[peterk9]

I'm going to disagree in the context of a factory suspension - regardless of tire size - will be as smooth as they wish it to be. They can and do make 21" tires ride silky smooth just as well as a 16" tire. There are quite a few components in the entire suspension that contribute to harshness; several in the tire alone (belt design, belt material, number of plies, etc.).

The harshness of the ride described by MLG85 is a problem - plain and simple. These cars are designed to have very supple rides. If they don't - something is amiss. Our standard reserve suspension is silky smooth.

He should be able to simply go to the dealership, get in another Aviator (same trim/suspension) and back to back see the difference. No way these things ride that bad as designed by the factory.

My post was made taking with the already manufactured vehicle in mind. The suspension has been set and changing from 20" to 18" will make a bit of a difference for the reason stated. I have first-hand experience with that.

Peter

 

[Cojado]

Hi rjabend. Yes, apples to apples, a larger sidewall ratio will contribute to a "softer"/smoother ride.

So as an example of an apples to apples comparison: Take two of the exact same Lincoln Aviators. The only difference being wheel size and tire sidewall ratio.

One Aviator is equipped with 21" wheels and 265/40-21 Michelin ABCD tires. And the other Aviator is equipped with 18" wheels and 265/55-18 Michelin ABCD tires.

The Aviator with the 18" wheels and 265/55 Michelin ABCD tires will ride softer.

Yes, of course there are other variables, but it is easy to eliminate other variables, since we are discussing using different size wheels/tires on the exact same vehicle, not two theoretically different vehicles.
So if you have 21" wheels on your vehicle, and downsize the wheels/upsize the sidewall correctly in order to maintain proper overall wheel/tire diameter, (one size up in sidewall for each inch smaller in wheel size), with the same make/model tire, the ride will be softer. This is established wheel/tire science.

EDIT- I forgot to add: The real question is whether the improvement in ride comfort offered by going to smaller wheels/larger sidewall ratio tires will be worth the somewhat expensive cost of 4 new wheels and 4 new tires. So test driving an example with smaller wheels before spending the money would be a very good idea. Doing so may also help an owner figure out if there is a suspension or other problem causing their perceived rough ride.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info, but I bought an American luxury car and there a way to many people complaining of a rough ride. The suspension is supposed to take into account the size of the tire. My 2022 nautilus shocks have very poor dampening effect I believe short cuts were taken because of supply issues I've used my wipers twice since I bought it and at night you can see the streaks of water it leaves behind.when a wiper does this it's always time to change it. My daughter last night at age 18 said wow dad I can't see on passenger side my car is spotless its not dirt. Again they used the cheapest products I'm assuming because they plan to discontinue this model. Again my tires crash into pot holes with a large bang !!! The car is brand new 4 weeks this shouod not happen regardless of sidewalls or brand I've leased 2004, 8, 13, 16, 19 explorers and now a 2022 lincoln and it's the worst ride EVER i

 

[bbf2530]

Thanks for the info, but I bought an American luxury car and there a way to many people complaining of a rough ride. The suspension is supposed to take into account the size of the tire. My 2022 nautilus shocks have very poor dampening effect I believe short cuts were taken because of supply issues I've used my wipers twice since I bought it and at night you can see the streaks of water it leaves behind.when a wiper does this it's always time to change it. My daughter last night at age 18 said wow dad I can't see on passenger side my car is spotless its not dirt. Again they used the cheapest products I'm assuming because they plan to discontinue this model. Again my tires crash into pot holes with a large bang !!! The car is brand new 4 weeks this shouod not happen regardless of sidewalls or brand I've leased 2004, 8, 13, 16, 19 explorers and now a 2022 lincoln and it's the worst ride EVER i

Hi Cojado. I am sorry you are having issues with your vehicle. And I am not excusing or dismissing your issues. However, my reply which you quoted was not even directed to or referring to you, it was directed to rjabend, who had questions about tire sidewall size.

Also, keep in mind you are not the OP, nor are you the only one involved in this thread. I and others are simply providing information to the questions of others. This information may or may not be helpful to you, but it can be helpful to others.

You are not happy with your vehicle. We get it. Just keep in mind we are all just fellow Lincoln owners and Lincoln Forums members, not Lincoln employees. So we will still try to help others.

In the meantime, in addition to posting here, keep expressing your complaints to the Service Department at you Lincoln Dealer and Lincoln Concierge. They are the ones who can help you.

Keep us updated and good luck.

 

[peterk9]

Not my area of expertise prompting a question: In general, will a larger sidewall dimension contribute to a softer ride?

My experience says yes, it will provide a slightly better ride. I went from 20" to 18". It also helps to prevent/limit curb rash.

Peter

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[miffedatlincoln]

My experience says yes, it will provide a slightly better ride. I went from 20" to 18". It also helps to prevent/limit curb rash.

Peter

Peter, did you buy aftermarket wheels? And what had to be done to the vehicle's systems to adjust to the smaller size?

 

[bbf2530]

Peter, did you buy aftermarket wheels? And what had to be done to the vehicle's systems to adjust to the smaller size?

Hi mal. If done properly, the taller sidewall ratio tire makes up for the smaller diameter wheel, matching the overall factory wheel/tire diameter. Then nothing else needs to be done.

Essentially, for every inch you go down in wheel diameter, you go up one sidewall size with the tires, assuming you keep the same width tire (generally the best way to go).

Below I am using a random tire size, since I am not sure what sizes the Aviator uses.

As an example: If you have 21" wheels with 265/40-21 tires and want to swap to 18" wheels. You would get a set of 265/55-18 tires. Downsize 3 wheel sizes, up 3 sidewall ratio sizes.

Another example...From 21" wheels with 265/40-21 tires to 19" wheels, you would got to a 265/50-19 tires.

Another example...From a 20" wheel to an 18" wheel, you would increase the sidewall ratio by two sizes, etc., etc.

Hope this is understandable.

Here is a tire diameter tool which may help you visualize: Tire Size Calculator

Just click on the "Tire Comparison" tab and enter the tire sizes.

Good luck.

 

[peterk9]

Peter, did you buy aftermarket wheels? And what had to be done to the vehicle's systems to adjust to the smaller size?

I bought the 18" steel Interceptor wheels. As bbf2530 mentioned, as long as you get the correct tire size there are no adjustments required.
This is the site I use, Tire size calculator: compare tires online and as long as the diameter difference reading is 0 (zero), you are good to go. You don't want to exceed a difference of 3%. On the Aviator, I just bought winter tires to fit the existing wheels (rims) since I lease my vehicles and didn't want to get stuck with wheels/tires on my lease return due to Ford/Lincoln continually changing tire sizes. The dealer gave me $400 for my wheels the last time. Better than nothing or going through the hassle of trying to sell them.

Peter

 

[inmanlanier]

I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade here, but the point I was trying to make above is that tire size is NOT a single predictable attribute towards ride stiffness. As I stated, there are multiple parameters in each and every tire (irrespective of size) that can significantly contribute to any particular performance parameter (like being noise, handling, ride compliance, etc.).

You can't simply say that since I went to a smaller or larger wheel (and whatever change in aspect ratio at the same time) that said change is in any way indicative of expected change for ride compliance due to that single parameter change (size). Heck, a different tire of the same exact size can have significantly different performance parameters (those again being noise, handling, ride compliance).

As a case in point - the 'same exact' tire that you would buy at your local tire shop for your Lincoln (e.g. Michelin primacy 255/55R20) in itself may be (and likely is) moderately different than the one that came down the factory line. In other words, it's not truly the 'same exact; tire. Why - because Lincoln very carefully tunes and specifies what they want on the one that is delivered to Lincoln for the cars running down the line. The Michelin dudes that design the consumer tire (going to your local tire stores) are not designing to the same specifications for a variety of reasons known only to them.

I don't wish to get in an argument here, but this is one of those situations where the general knowledge is not informed. There is huge variety in the performance parameters in each and every tire people purchase for vehicles - even when they are the same size, load rating, and usage type (all season, summer, winter, etc.).

For 5 different 255/55R20 all season radials, you will have potentially 5 different notable responses in ride harshness. I assure you the one they put on at the factory for our cars will be the smoothest and most appealing to the majority of customers - why - because a smooth quiet ride was paramount in the criteria those Lincoln suspension tuners used for the Aviator. Changing to a 21" or 19" cannot predictably be a more harsh or smooth ride in either choice. For each tire choice it will depend on how that particular tire was designed. You might get lucky predicting - I'd bet money not.

Off my soap box now. Sorry!

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[bbf2530]

I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade here, but the point I was trying to make above is that tire size is NOT a single predictable attribute towards ride stiffness. As I stated, there are multiple parameters in each and every tire (irrespective of size) that can significantly contribute to any particular performance parameter (like being noise, handling, ride compliance, etc.).

You can't simply say that since I went to a smaller or larger wheel (and whatever change in aspect ratio at the same time) that said change is in any way indicative of expected change for ride compliance due to that single parameter change (size). Heck, a different tire of the same exact size can have significantly different performance parameters (those again being noise, handling, ride compliance).

As a case in point - the 'same exact' tire that you would buy at your local tire shop for your Lincoln (e.g. Michelin primacy 255/55R20) in itself may be (and likely is) moderately different than the one that came down the factory line. In other words, it's not truly the 'same exact; tire. Why - because Lincoln very carefully tunes and specifies what they want on the one that is delivered to Lincoln for the cars running down the line. The Michelin dudes that design the consumer tire (going to your local tire stores) are not designing to the same specifications for a variety of reasons known only to them.

I don't wish to get in an argument here, but this is one of those situations where the general knowledge is not informed. There is huge variety in the performance parameters in each and every tire people purchase for vehicles - even when they are the same size, load rating, and usage type (all season, summer, winter, etc.).

For 5 different 255/55R20 all season radials, you will have potentially 5 different notable responses in ride harshness. I assure you the one they put on at the factory for our cars will be the smoothest and most appealing to the majority of customers - why - because a smooth quiet ride was paramount in the criteria those Lincoln suspension tuners used for the Aviator. Changing to a 21" or 19" cannot predictably be a more harsh or smooth ride in either choice. For each tire choice it will depend on how that particular tire was designed. You might get lucky predicting - I'd bet money not.

Off my soap box now. Sorry!

Hi inmanlanier. I am not looking to argue either. However, I am looking to provide the correct answer to a simple question which has become bogged down in straw-man arguments and unnecessarily injected, unrelated variables.
And "general knowledge", when backed up by the experts, including the tire manufacturers, in actual very informed.
You are not "pissing on anyone's parade, since what some of us have posted is informed, accepted tire knowledge, attested to by the tire experts, not anonymous Internet opinion.

For example, why do shorter sidewall tires result in a harsher ride, more bent wheels/cracked wheels, damaged sidewalls on rough roads etc.? This is because there is less cushion in a shorter sidewall tire. Less sidewall between the wheel/suspension and the road. In addition, shorter sidewall tires must have stiffer sidewall to handle the weight of the vehicle etc. etc. etc. And all lack of rubber (a ride insulator) and added sidewall stiffness result in a rougher ride and ride harshness.
In other words, that same crashing and smashing that bends and breaks wheels, and flattens tires, makes its way into the cabin in everyday driving, even when does not destroy a wheel and tire. And that means a rougher ride. And what is the cure for that? Smaller wheels and taller sidewall tiers. This is not rocket science.

EDIT- I also want to add: Personally, I believe it is foolish to spend the money to buy smaller wheels, with new, taller sidewall tires in order to get a smoother ride. My opinion would be if an owner needs to do that with a new vehicle, perhaps they should be looking for another type of vehicle in the first place.
However, it is their vehicle and their money, and I also understand that I can have my opinion, but my opinion may not/does not matter to others. And more importantly, I respect the right of others to do as they please with their vehicles, whether I agree or not.

So to quickly address your points, which we have addressed previously (pretending for a moment that the paragraph above did not)... First, no one has stated that wheel size/sidewall ratio is the "single predictable attribute" in the way you are attempting to portray it now. Everyone originally stated and acknowledged that there are many variables and listed many of those variables and parameters. However, we have also repeatedly pointed out that we are discussing a strictly apples to apples comparison of same make, model, width tires. Only different sidewall ratios. And unfortunately, this statement will need to be repeated over and over below. Because those variables certainly can be isolated in a very informed manner. Ask the tire experts.
So since no one has claimed wheel/sidewall ratio is/are an all encompassing factor, we should be able to move on from that straw-man argument.

Next... We are discussing apples to apples, same tire make, model, same width, smaller wheel/taller sidewall ratio. That eliminates all other variables in the discussion. No pre-production testing mules, hypothetical suspension changes etc. Same tire make, model, same width, smaller wheel/taller sidewall ratio.

Next...Yes, it can be said "the same exact tire" can eliminate the variables you are claiming. And we can buy the same tire as what "The Michelin Dudes" designed. Even using your example, the Michelin Primacy 255/55R20 tire is manufactured by Michelin for various vehicles, of various makes and models. And it can be purchased as such aftermarket. Even using your hypothesis, any aftermarket tread compounds changes (if any, since the odds are just as likely there are none, as opposed to your claims that there are) etc. are not that different.

This is why there are so many tire classifications. Passenger, Touring, Grand Touring. High Performance, Ultra-High Performance, etc. etc. Then All-Season, Summer, Winter etc. And also why some of us have repeatedly recommended that those owners looking for the best ride look for tires with an emphasis on ride comfort. Which would also mean looking in the Touring/Grand Touring classifications.

Next, this is all informed, accepted tire knowledge attested to by tire experts. It is easy to look up. Going to a smaller wheel/taller tire sidewall ratio, apples to apples, will result in a more compliant ride. Check an expert tire source. Even the tire manufacturers themselves put forth this information. And they are quite informed.

We are not comparing "5 different 255/55R20 all season radials". Again, a straw man argument. We are comparing one make, one model, same width, smaller wheel, taller sidewall ratio.

And finally, a smooth quite ride is/was not "...paramount in the criteria those Lincoln suspension tuners used for the Aviator." Jeez, just look at the number of owners complaining about rough ride, ride harshness etc....lol Because it is impossible to make everyone happy.

Every tire on a Lincoln and any other vehicle is a compromise of ride, handling, sound absorption, tread wear etc. So making general statements which are not informed (to use your words) in order to justify an opinion is not informed.
This is a classic case of "over-analysis brings paralysis". Inject so many hypothetical situations which no one is discussing (i.e. "...mules/prototypes more than 1 year in advance of production and then test the mules all around the country..." etc.), with no corroboration/backing, but use it to cloud the discussion.

Everyone has the information and can do the research, if they wish to. No one needs to take my or you4r word for it. But here is more below:

They can also Google terms such as "taller sidewall, smoother ride" and similar ones, for more information: taller sidewall, smoother ride - Google Search

Or "Do taller sidewalls ride better": Do taller sidewalls ride better - Google Search

Of course, then weed through the opinion/forum links for the expert sites.

Unfortunately. I certainly don't expect my reply to end this discussion. However, I can, and have, provided many expert. informed links backing the information I have provided. The same can not be said otherwise.

Good luck.