19' NAVIGATOR CAM PHASER - ENGINE NOISY AFTER RECALL PERFORMED

[DM1313]

Hello Everyone! We bought our Navigator used last Summer with about 13K miles on it. There was a recall on it and we took it to the local dealer to get that work performed. AS it was explained to me it was a two phase recall procedure and phase 2 which was the cam phaser replacement was only necessary if there was a rattling noise at start after phase 1 was done. We had that so they proceeded with the phase 2 replacement and needed the car for several days to complete this repair so I know a lot of work was involved.

I believe our engine now sounds way different than it ever did before. To me it is noisy and still rattles, it is louder and deeper sounding than it ever was. Dealer has investigated twice and claims they don't notice anything.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[11MarkX]

Go to a different dealer. You'll have to tell them that you were not happy with first dealer since the first thing they will do is put your VIN in the computer and see the other dealer said your car was fine. It should sound the same as when it was new. If you can find the rattle, take video of where the rattle is. Louder than before noise could be a minor exhaust leak which gives off a drone deeper sound.

 

[NavigatorPro]

The engine by nature is noisy. When I cold start the vehicle in my driveway it sounds like a big machine outside. You dont hear the engine in the vehicle because of insulation.

Can you make a video and upload it to Youtube for us so we can hear the sound? I have had a 2018 Navigator to which I put 130000 miles on. I experienced everything you experienced to include this cam phaser replacement as well as much more.

Basically you need to make a documentary video for the dealership and in the video clearly point out whats going on. The dealer can then send it to their tech guy at Ford corporate if they cant figure it out.

Here is a great example video. In the video the turbos have a stuck wastegate creating that noise.

BTW I would also have them replace the thermostat. The original thermostat is a bad design and makes the engine run too hot. The new thermostat resolvea that issue. It is very important to get that replaced because increased heat means increased wear on engine/trans.

 

[DM1313]

The engine by nature is noisy. When I cold start the vehicle in my driveway it sounds like a big machine outside. You dont hear the engine in the vehicle because of insulation.

Can you make a video and upload it to Youtube for us so we can hear the sound? I have had a 2018 Navigator to which I put 130000 miles on. I experienced everything you experienced to include this cam phaser replacement as well as much more.

Basically you need to make a documentary video for the dealership and in the video clearly point out whats going on. The dealer can then send it to their tech guy at Ford corporate if they cant figure it out.

Here is a great example video. In the video the turbos have a stuck wastegate creating that noise.

BTW I would also have them replace the thermostat. The original thermostat is a bad design and makes the engine run too hot. The new thermostat resolvea that issue. It is very important to get that replaced because increased heat means increased wear on engine/trans.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I made a video of the startup noise. Please check it out if you have a free moment, it's only a little over one minute long. The noise changes after about one minute too but curious if you can pick out anything unusual.

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[NavigatorPro]

Turbo wastegate flutter. Go to dealer and tell them there is a problem with the turbo wastegate.

 

[NavigatorPro]

Its 4 years/50000 miles warranty unless it has extended warranty.

 

[DM1313]

Turbo wastegate flutter. Go to dealer and tell them there is a problem with the turbo wastegate.

Sounds like a winner. What's crazy is the car only has 26k miles but glad I bought the extended warranty for stuff like this. Thx again. Will let you know the outcome.

 

[NavigatorPro]

My turbos had the flutter around 100,000 miles or so. This is way too early for the flutter. Basically in the video you see the turbo and the smallish wastegate. The wastegate is vibrating at high rpms creating a high speed rattle. At the time the only fix was to replace the turbo. Later on the other turbo developed the flutter. So 2 turbos were eventually replaced.

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[DM1313]

My turbos had the flutter around 100,000 miles or so. This is way too early for the flutter. Basically in the video you see the turbo and the smallish wastegate. The wastegate is vibrating at high rpms creating a high speed rattle. At the time the only fix was to replace the turbo. Later on the other turbo developed the flutter. So 2 turbos were eventually replaced.

So do you still think it is the flutter just abnormally early?

 

[NavigatorPro]

In the Ford Tech youtube video look at 2 minutes 4 seconds in the video when he starts the F150. Thats the same sound your truck is making. Then he shows the turbos.

 

[NavigatorPro]

So do you still think it is the flutter just abnormally early?

Probably the turbos are defective and maybe Ford has a new redesigned turbo for it.

2019 is the second model year and Ford didnt get all the kinks out of this model yet.

I also suggest you do the following:

- Change spark plugs at 50000 miles

- Get transmission fluid flushed at dealership at 25000 miles then get trans filter/pan dropped at 50000 miles

- Only use OEM Motorcraft oil, cabin, plugs and air filters

- Get coolant thermostat changed now if you have not done it. Ford redesigned their thermostats and if you notice the temperature in the trailer menu sometimes gets to 220 degrees plus. Its not supposed to do that. The thermostat is defective and stuck closed. New thermostat will make truck run at 200 degrees. The extra heat will cause problems eventually.

I attached a picture...old thermostat in your truck and new redesigned thermostat. Also took a picture of the bag with part number. Only use Motorcraft OEM thermostats.

 

[DM1313]

Thank you thank you thank you! I will pass along these notes to them.

The other theory I had was it seems like the cam phaser recall two phase repair was quite extensive and involved many parts being touched (intake manifold, belts, pulleys, ignition coils, fuel pump, timing components, etc) so maybe during that process something was affected.

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[DM1313]

Probably the turbos are defective and maybe Ford has a new redesigned turbo for it.

2019 is the second model year and Ford didnt get all the kinks out of this model yet.

I also suggest you do the following:

- Change spark plugs at 50000 miles

- Get transmission fluid flushed at dealership at 25000 miles then get trans filter/pan dropped at 50000 miles

- Only use OEM Motorcraft oil, cabin, plugs and air filters

- Get coolant thermostat changed now if you have not done it. Ford redesigned their thermostats and if you notice the temperature in the trailer menu sometimes gets to 220 degrees plus. Its not supposed to do that. The thermostat is defective and stuck closed. New thermostat will make truck run at 200 degrees. The extra heat will cause problems eventually.

I attached a picture...old thermostat in your truck and new redesigned thermostat. Also took a picture of the bag with part number. Only use Motorcraft OEM thermostats.

So Dealer has car and is saying:
So far the fluttering in the video and the noise your engine is currently making is considered normal. He said all of the navigators can make this noise with the type of engine that you have. We will continue to check to see if we hear anything abnormal.

 

[DM1313]

So Dealer has car and is saying:
So far the fluttering in the video and the noise your engine is currently making is considered normal. He said all of the navigators can make this noise with the type of engine that you have. We will continue to check to see if we hear anything abnormal.

Also saying they can't replace the thermostat unless I'm actually having an issue with it or can document a problem, see error codes, etc.

 

[NavigatorPro]

I know they wont replace the thermostat but that doesnt mean there is no issue. Does the temperature get to over 220 degrees in the trailer menu?

Ask them does a stock Navigator start up like that and make that noise?

 

[DM1313]

I know they wont replace the thermostat but that doesnt mean there is no issue. Does the temperature get to over 220 degrees in the trailer menu?

Ask them does a stock Navigator start up like that and make that noise?

Honestly haven't checked the trailer menu. Thank you...will report back.

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[DM1313]

Honestly haven't checked the trailer menu. Thank you...will report back.

Is there some sort of temperature records kept in the trailer menu or would I just have to observe it while driving?

 

[DM1313]

Is there some sort of temperature records kept in the trailer menu or would I just have to observe it while driving?

Also by stock do you mean brand new or do you mean the base model and not the version I have? I have the reserve.

 

[NavigatorPro]

Keep the trailer menu open and observe the temperature. Specifically when the vehicle is going uphill what happens to the temperature.

 

[DM1313]

Keep the trailer menu open and observe the temperature. Specifically when the vehicle is going uphill what happens to the temperature.

Ok will do that before my next service appointment.

By stock do you mean brand new or do you mean the base model and not the version I have? I have the Reserve.