07 Climate control not working properly? Too hot then too cold.

[haze5736]

I'm new to automatic climate control, however I don't think mine is working properly and the dealer disagrees and says it is working fine.
I like a temperature around 70 degrees F. So, I get the same symptom if I set driver and passenger to 70 or if I disable dual and set to 70.
After the car has gotten nice and warmed up, the drivers side will start blowing extremely hot to the point where I have to turn it off or open a window. You know where it gets so hot you feel like you can't breathe? The passenger side does not do this, it keeps putting out nice steady heat. The drivers side will eventually cool down but to the point where it is too cold. Or maybe it just feels cold because I was just blasted with hot air. Then the cycle starts over again. It takes a little time before it gets too hot again.
I'm pretty sure something is wrong here. But I don't know how to make the dealer understand. I have explained it just as I have in this thread.
Can someone confirm if this sounds like a problem? Because if it is, I will be at the dealer every week until they fix it.
Thanks.

 

[Town]

Post #10 in this thread: http://www.lincolnforums.com/forums/threads/10459-Town-Car-EATC-Self-test shows how you can do a self test on the EATC in your car. If the EATC module has any DTC set then they will be displayed in the self test. So write down all the codes received and check the table of codes and explanations for each code.

Sounds like the driver side blend door actuator (BDA) is problematic, and is easily replaced. Post #2 of this thread: http://www.lincolnforums.com/forums/threads/10512-Town-Car-HVAC-blend-door-actuator-replacement describes how to change the blend door actuators on your car. You can often hear the BDA cycling with a clicking sound at idle.

Your dealer should be able to connect a scanner and check the EATC module for codes, and also look at each actuator (5 of them) in the HVAC and see if they are cycling. It is quite difficult to get some dealers motivated to investigate problems.

If nothing shows up with the self test or with listening for the ticking sound, then use a temperature probe (meat thermometer worked for me) to record panel outlet temperatures (sounds like you already have the setting at panel).

Good luck.

 

[haze5736]

Now that the temperature has remained above 40 degrees I have been able to do the EATC self test. I have 2 error codes, 1263 and 1264. I have the workshop manual that outlines the replacement procedure where I need to remove the instrument panel and the plenum chamber. It does not state to lower the steering column, just to lower the steering wheel as far as possible with the adjustment lever. I think this is contradictory to what is in the above post. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something. And, all in all, is the procedure relatively easy?
The two suspect parts are called Mode Door Actuator - Floor Door and Mode Door Actuator - Panel/Defrost in the workshop manual. I started looking for parts but all I am coming up with is the blend door actuator. Are all these different actuators really the same part?

 

[Town]

The two mode door actuators for the floor and panel defrost do not have any influence on the air temperature. You will know if those mode door actuators have failed because you cannot direct air flow to particular vents. So you need to select floor only and see if the air flow is from the floor vents and not from the panel or defrost vents. Select defrost and ensure the airflow is from the defrost vent and the two small window vents. Check all the manual selectable positions and confirm they all work or not.

The procedure to replace those two mode door actuators does involve removing the dash. The procedure that I posted involves changing the blend door actuators (driver side and passenger side) and these are the actuators that cause temperature variations. In your case the driver side actuator is changing position to allow more or less hot air into the drivers side vents than your temperature setting dictates. The rear seat vents are fed from the drivers side so the temperature variation should be the same. The mode door positions (floor, defrost, panel etc) do not affect the air flow to the rear seat vent, that just has an upper or lower position switch for the two vents (one above the other).

What you are describing is not normal at all, but the EATC self test results do not match your symptoms.

There are 5 electronic actuators on your car. The recirc door actuator controls the input of fresh outside air or the recirculation of cabin air. The two blend door actuators control cabin temperature by comparing the temperature settings to the cabin air temp sensor in the triangular vent just to the right of the steering wheel in the panel. The passenger air temperature is set as an offset to the driver blend door actuator since there is no passenger cabin temp sensor. The air flow to the vents are directed by the floor and defroster mode doors beint set to open some passageways and close off others.

Besides noting the airflow from the vents with various manual settings, you should put a meat temperature probe into the convenient vent openings and see what temperature they record. The meat temperature probe is inexpensive and has the temperature range you need and has a very small tubular sensing end that will fit conveniently into the vent. Try a range of temperatures from A/C to full heat.

Good luck.

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[haze5736]

Most likely there is more than one thing going on here. I definitely have an issue with the mode door actuators because the output from the vents and floor do not change when I select the various modes. I only get air coming out of the floor. I never thought to check that previously because it was not an issue in the winter since I generally only use the floor mode. I don't remember having an issue with defrosting so not sure what's going on there. Unless enough air was coming out of the defroster to keep up since I do get a little air coming out of the defroster and vents on various settings. The mode doors seem to be a bigger issue with the a/c in the warmer weather. I am going to start with the mode doors since I am getting the codes then see what happens.
I am still unsure about finding the replacement parts for the mode doors. Does someone have a part number or a part description I can search on? I tried mode doors and actuators and only come up with the blend door actuator.
One last thing, if there was an issue with the temp sensor would that throw an error code?

 

[Town]

You probably will have to get them from Ford, either at a walk-in dealer or an online dealer. They are about $30 each. Attached are pictures of my replacement floor and defrost mode door actuators with part numbers. Seems only the suffix is different. You can see which is which from the picture name on right side of display at the bottom.

The error codes for a problem in-car temp sensor are 1251 and 1253 depending on the source of the problem. Since your passenger temperature is correct then I would not think you would have a problem with that sensor.

Good luck.

 

[Reyhook]

You might try this online auto parts (Rock Auto)

https://www.rockauto.com/?merchant_return_link=Return+to+RockAuto,+LLC

 

[haze5736]

I finally got the car fixed at the dealer.
Turned out that along with the two blend door actuators, the a/c needed to be recharged. They tested for leaks and none found.
Since they were in there, we agreed that replacing all 4, hard to reach, actuators would be cheap insurance since the dash would have to come apart again to replace them later. I didn't feel that the dealer cost for the actuators was bad. I think about $250 total.
The job broke down as follows:
Somewhere around 10 hours labor. Not sure since they had to fudge the final total.
4 actuators
a/c recharge
The total cost of the job was between $1,200 and $1,300. Since I had brought the car back a couple of times right after purchase for a complaint about the heating, the dealer agreed to cover some of the cost. I ended up paying $600.
It sure is nice to set the system to auto and set my temp and not notice any temperature fluctuations.

My suggestion to anyone looking to purchase one of these cars is to check this system really well. Maybe even pay the diagnostic fee at the dealer. Now that I'm more familiar with the car I realize that the groaning and percolating noises from inside the dash were signs of a problem. They no longer exist after the repair.

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[Town]

Congratulations on getting it all fixed for a reasonable price.

Good luck.

 

[Reyhook]

Now that I'm more familiar with the car I realize that the groaning and percolating noises from inside the dash were signs of a problem. They no longer exist after the repair.

What do you attribute the cause of the groaning and percolating noises?...Repair parts or a/c recharge or both?

 

[Town]

What do you attribute the cause of the groaning and percolating noises?...Repair parts or a/c recharge or both?

Clicking and tapping are signs of the actuator(s) cycling (if you touch them you can feel the vibration), and there is a TSB on this for the 2 mode doors that I had done. I am unsure of groaning, but I don't think it is associated with the A/C recharge since my accumulator drier was replaced (tiny hole) after 4 years with a very low state of charge in the spring. There was no groaning or any noise at all. My dealer took a long time to find the leak. The accumulator drier used to be up near the firewall out of harms way, but the 2003 model put it down on the right frame rail between engine and rad where it gets splashed from kerb-side puddles.

Occasionally I can hear a percolating sound from the center dash area after I switch the engine off, so that is not necessarily a problem with the actuators, since my cooling system is good, heating and A/C are good and the air is directed where it should go. Others have noted it too, but there has not been a good explanation put forward and it hasn't bothered me, I think it is a feature of the cooling system or A/C system creating bubbles due to heat sink. But I have no idea.

Good luck with your car.

 

[Reyhook]

Occasionally I can hear a percolating sound from the center dash area after I switch the engine off, so that is not necessarily a problem with the actuators, since my cooling system is good, heating and A/C are good and the air is directed where it should go. Others have noted it too, but there has not been a good explanation put forward and it hasn't bothered me, I think it is a feature of the cooling system or A/C system creating bubbles due to heat sink.

Yes, your description is very similar to what I have experienced from time to time after turning off the engine. I was just curious if that was indicative of any auto climate control problems. Thanks

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[Town]

Even though I hear the percolating sound occasionally, the HVAC is working correctly, the temperature setting is maintained in heat and A/C mode and the air is being distributed to the vents I want. I do change the air distribution settings sometimes and have no problems. Since I often turn off the A/C it may well be the evaporator that is percolating occasionally since there is always hot coolant flowing through the heater core. I have not had the A/C on for a while because of cool weather here and I have not heard the percolating either.

The most frequent noise you hear due to a bad actuator is the clicking sound from the actuator cycling and vibrating. You have 5 actuators so running the EATC self test will find any bad ones, but not necessarily just a cycling actuator. Even if you don't hear the actuators cycling a dealer can see the cycling with a scanner.

I will try to pay more attention to the conditions when I switch off my engine. If I hear the percolating perhaps I can quickly check the evaporator and heater core tubes for the sound of bubbles being created. I have heard the percolating sound in other vehicles but I cannot remember any specifics.

Good luck.