2020 Aviator sputtering in passing gear

[KWC2025]

I have a 2020 Aviator that I purchased a couple of years ago as a certified pre-owned vehicle and have had an array of problems since the beginning including several electrical issues. My main concern at this point is it basically goes into neutral when I try to pass vehicles on the highway. I can hear sputtering coming from the exhaust or possibly catalytic converter. This lasts for several seconds (up to 15 seconds) and then it re-engages in gear. I've had it in the shop and they called to let me know it was ready, but I drove it and the problem still exists. The service manager said they reprogrammed the transmission and it can take up to 1000 miles for the vehicle to learn my driving habits and it would correct itself. That sounds absurd to me. I don't see any way the problem is just going to correct itself. In the meantime, I don't feel safe driving it as I have almost been hit from behind as the vehicle stalls out. Has anyone experienced anything similar with their Aviator?

 

[bbf2530]

I have a 2020 Aviator that I purchased a couple of years ago as a certified pre-owned vehicle and have had an array of problems since the beginning including several electrical issues. My main concern at this point is it basically goes into neutral when I try to pass vehicles on the highway. I can hear sputtering coming from the exhaust or possibly catalytic converter. This lasts for several seconds (up to 15 seconds) and then it re-engages in gear. I've had it in the shop and they called to let me know it was ready, but I drove it and the problem still exists. The service manager said they reprogrammed the transmission and it can take up to 1000 miles for the vehicle to learn my driving habits and it would correct itself. That sounds absurd to me. I don't see any way the problem is just going to correct itself. In the meantime, I don't feel safe driving it as I have almost been hit from behind as the vehicle stalls out. Has anyone experienced anything similar with their Aviator?

Hi KWC2025 and welcome to the Lincoln Forums. Your vehicle would not be performing like this if the problem was corrected.

Call and speak to the Service Manager. Or even better, stop by and speak face to face. Politely let them know the problem is not corrected, and you can not safely drive the vehicle with it performing in this manner.

If you get no satisfaction there, call Lincoln Concierge and see what they can do to assist.

I’m sure others will also jump in to help, so keep us updated and good luck.

 

[KWC2025]

Thank you for the reply bbf2530. The service manager is the one telling me it's "Lincoln protocol" to drive the vehicle for 1000 miles after reprogramming the transmission as if there's nothing else they can do at this point. I did reach out to Lincoln Client Relationship Center (is that the same thing as Lincoln Concierge??) but they weren't much help either. They said to take it to another shop to have someone else look at it. I guess I will try that option, but it's not very efficient or customer friendly as it can take weeks before a loaner becomes available.

 

[inmanlanier]

There is a technical service bulletin out on this. It may be covered under your OEM extended powertrain warranty (it was recently for my son-in-law's 2020 Expedition). Expeditions/Navigators and Explorers/Aviators were the population. Our 10R60 tranny is (I believe) simply a less load capable version of the 10R80 in the big boy cars. They are the same design.

I don't have my records but a quick search returned the following: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236573-0001.pdf

I got the poop scared out of me driving his Expedition this past March when I got run off the road (running out of merge lane) with A-holes that would not let me come over into traffic. He had warned me about the symptoms; I didn't expect to have to experience them. but did when I was driving coming back from New Orleans. When I nailed the gas to pull ahead of all the traffic, the transmission then said - 'never mind - I'm disengaging drive'. Fortunately at the end of the merge lane was a good bit of emergency lane. After coasting off throttle a bit, it re-engaged and we proceeded on.

There were (I think) 3 different TSBs on the topic; I think this one was the final one (another being 22-2145 that this superceded). He had it to the local dealership, the did the TSB - problem resolved.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[inmanlanier]

I should have mentioned, reprogramming the Tranny TCM will NOT resolve this issue. They actually change the separator plate between the valve body and transmission body. My assumption is the divider plate provides additional ports/blocks that essentially hydraulically reprogram the transmission (in the old days the valve body was a hydraulic computer, now they have a combination of that and solenoids controlled by the TCM).

 

[peterk9]

Thank you for the reply bbf2530. The service manager is the one telling me it's "Lincoln protocol" to drive the vehicle for 1000 miles after reprogramming the transmission as if there's nothing else they can do at this point. I did reach out to Lincoln Client Relationship Center (is that the same thing as Lincoln Concierge??) but they weren't much help either. They said to take it to another shop to have someone else look at it. I guess I will try that option, but it's not very efficient or customer friendly as it can take weeks before a loaner becomes available.

Welcome to the Forum
I'm not a mechanic, but I doubt this is a 'Transmission Relearn' issue. The manual states you may experience hard or firm shifts at first after a battery disconnect, but it doesn't mention anything about not shifting at all. That to me would be a safety issue.

Peter

 

[inmanlanier]

Welcome to the Forum
I'm not a mechanic, but I doubt this is a 'Transmission Relearn' issue. The manual states you may experience hard or firm shifts at first after a battery disconnect, but it doesn't mention anything about not shifting at all. That to me would be a safety issue.

Peter

I agree with you, Peter. The OP is stating the classic symptoms of the TSB. This issue has been plaguing these transmissions for several years - it took multiple times for Ford to get the solution right.

Furthermore, the service advisors are not very savvy on this issue. My Lincoln dealer is a joint Ford/Lincoln dealer. My son-in-law bought his used Expedition from them. When he took it into them twice for this issue (he had not shared with me the issue back then) they said they were 'waiting on parts'. For what, Lord knows, because the TSB is pretty strait forward. To top it off, they charged him a good chunk of change to diagnose (it should have been no more than the $100 deductible for the normal extended warranty). When I experienced the problem, I then researched the issue - found the TSB and mentioned it my son-in-law. He scheduled an appointment with another local Ford dealership and I met him there. We had hard copy of the TSB in hand, the service writer was nice, but had no idea. The service writer said they had to troubleshoot first. I made it clear in no uncertain terms that whatever troubleshooting was done - their writeup was to describe what we experienced (and more or less dictated how to word it). They implemented the TSB, and voila - problem solved. I suggested to my son-in-law to get his money back from the other dealer - doubt he ever did.

 

[KWC2025]

Thank you all for your responses. I put a ticket in with another Lincoln shop, but they said it would be at least two or three weeks before they would have a loaner available. I at least feel like I'm pointed in the right direction thanks to the feedback on this forum. I'll report back when the next repairs are made.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[inmanlanier]

KWC2025 - I highly recommend you take a hard copy of the TSB with you. In particular read the symptoms - assuming they do, in fact match those described. Be respectful but firm that the TSB is what they are to work. As you may know, this falls under the OEM factory extended powertrain warranty that we all receive (vs. the 4 yr 50K warranty). This, of course assumes you are within the time and mileage windows. There is a $100 deductible in 2022 - I'm guessing it was the same for your 2020.

Good luck and please post your results with us.

 

[inmanlanier]

KWC2025 - any update?

 

[sspradley]

KWC2025 - any update?

This is interesting. I have a 2022 Aviator hybrid. It had a few recalls and was due for 30k service so I took it in and also mentioned it sputtered sometimes - not often - on acceleration and they checked everything - turns out they're going to replace the transmission. Ok - but dealer said there were no loaners. It'd be over a week to get the new transmission than how many days to install, etc? Has anyone had problems getting loaners?

 

[bbf2530]

This is interesting. I have a 2022 Aviator hybrid. It had a few recalls and was due for 30k service so I took it in and also mentioned it sputtered sometimes - not often - on acceleration and they checked everything - turns out they're going to replace the transmission. Ok - but dealer said there were no loaners. It'd be over a week to get the new transmission than how many days to install, etc? Has anyone had problems getting loaners?

Hi sspradley. Yes, it can be difficult to obtain a Lincoln complementary loaner on short notice, since most dealerships will already have them scheduled out for customers who scheduled their appointments before you.

If none are available, contact Lincoln Concierge for assistance in obtaining a rental vehicle and being compensated by Lincoln.

Keep us updated and good luck.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[peterk9]

With the number of recent recalls,, I'm not surprised. I believe that for a warranty repair, you can rent a vehicle and be reimbursed for the expense.

Peter

 

[Vikingstaff]

So I have not needed a loaner yet for any Aviator service. I will say that our 2020 BMW X3 dealership NEVER had a loaner available, even with pre-scheduled service. It was just another knock against Bimmer when I sold it and moved on.

But to echo Peter, I can imagine with all these recalls it’s going to be more difficult to get loaned for Lincoln service. I guess we are fortunate in that I am retired and my wife works remotely. We rarely use her MKZ hybrid anymore, so between the two, we have our own loaner…

 

[sspradley]

Hi sspradley. Yes, it can be difficult to obtain a Lincoln complementary loaner on short notice, since most dealerships will already have them scheduled out for customers who scheduled their appointments before you.

If none are available, contact Lincoln Concierge for assistance in obtaining a rental vehicle and being compensated by Lincoln.

Keep us updated and good luck.

I just spoke with Lincoln Concierge services. They said that the loaner situation is managed by the local dealership and I need to ask the service manage if I can get a rental and be reimbursed but that they may not agree. I am concerned because two reasons why I bought the Aviator - and not the Mercedes or Cadillac also in the running - was because of their concierge service - pick and delivery of the car for service, and availability of loaners when in service. When I take my Mercedes in for service that might even be for just a day, they offer a loaner. This is really disappointing. I even have to wait for schedule service when someone is available to pick up and deliver the car. It's like they weren't ready to offer these services but did so to sell cars. I am scheduling these appointments in advance (at least a week) and for a transmission replacement, come on, that's like a big deal. They should be worried I'll be charging it as a 'lemon' and going that route. It has less than 30k on it.

 

[inmanlanier]

I'm a little vague here (it was hard to get the facts when I looked in the past), but I believe loaners are provided as bbf2530 states, subject to availability of the dealer. It's not very well documented, but I believe if you are under the base warranty for recalls or failed parts - the dealer provides one of his loaners to you. I believe the dealer would have to eat the rental cost if the car did not come from the dealer's loaner fleet, hence why they are reticent to do so. I don't believe there is any published obligation for the dealer to provide you with a rental.

Unfortunately, the more defects/recalls that Ford/Lincoln have - the more the impact on loaner availability. I'm sure you've noticed the large number of recalls out there. This unfortunately impacts you in this situation.

I don't believe that rentals are generally authorized unless the service is under the Ford ESP plan where the plan purchased paid for the additional option for loaners. I was led to believe in those instances, you have a better chance of a rental since I think the ESP will pay the cost of the car. The Lincoln concierge desk also has some authority to spend money in a variety of ways (including authorizing a rental loaner).

My Ford/Lincoln dealer (i.e. were I purchased the car) has a fleet of 54 loaners between the Ford side and Lincoln sides of the dealership. These get sold down the line at discounted prices. I'm not sure how the arrangements work, but I would guess that maintaining a loaner fleet is not a trite cost to the dealer. Each car depreciates, there is are fuel and maintenance costs, plus the carrying cost (loan) for the vehicle. I'd be curious how the payment arrangements are between Lincoln Corporate and each dealer. For example, I would imagine the dealer has an obligation to maintain some number of loaners in their inventory. I would guess said number is tied to the volume of units sold by the dealer each year. I doubt the loaner fleet cost is a 'cost of doing business' totally borne by the dealer - there must be some cost sharing.

Any of you sages out there have an idea how it works?

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[peterk9]

I did an Internet search as to whether the concierge can authorize a rental and the result was NO.
My dealer will provide a loaner to customers, if necessary, to anyone rregardless of the vehicle brand they drive.

Peter

 

[inmanlanier]

I did an Internet search as to whether the concierge can authorize a rental and the result was NO.
My dealer will provide a loaner to customers, if necessary, to anyone rregardless of the vehicle brand they drive.

Peter

I agree that in published policy, no they don't do that as a rule.

After lengthy discussions on the screwed up refunds of the X-Plan invoice overcharge on our original Aviator purchase - that's when I learned they have a good bit of latitude in what they can do. I would imagine for a typical situation, they would not offer reimbursement of a rental. If, however the customer has been denied loaners multiple times and is not given a reasonable opportunity to schedule the repair with a loaner (assuming it's a covered warranty repair), then I would think with the right feedback the concierge desk could be either compelling enough to the dealer to make it happen or as a last resort do a one-off rental for the customer.

Regarding internet searches - I'm sure you've learned as I that there are as many different results returned as the number of times you slightly reword the question. I've actually worded the same question slightly different and gotten two completely opposing AI Google search answers. As such I call it Artificial Ignorance.

 

[bbf2530]

Hi gang. The following is a combination of personal experience, along with personal knowledge. And of course, I also realize that experiences can/will vary for some of the reasons I will mention below (only numbered for clarity, not order of importance), along with other reasons I just won’t be able to think of at the moment…:

1- As Lincoln states on their website description of the Lincoln Complimentary Loaner program…
“Valid for Lincoln vehicles within 4-years of the new vehicle warranty start date or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Subject to retailer availability. See your retailer for complete details. Lincoln reserves the right to change, modify or discontinue this program at any time.”
So it is up to Dealer discretion if we are outside that warranty period, availability can be limited etc. etc.
There is also extended Lincoln Complimentary Loaner coverage if we have a LincolnProtect ESP with rental car reimbursement coverage also chosen.

2- Lincoln Complimentary Loaner availability varies greatly by individual dealership. Many dealerships have not even recovered from the vehicle shortage caused by Covid. Or in a case like my Lincoln Dealership, they have also not recovered from their vehicle lot and building being flooded from one of our recent “100 year floods”, where over 200 vehicles were destroyed.

3- Past personal experience- Since no dealership has an unlimited supply of loaners, we can’t expect to always have immediate loaner availability, even in an emergency. Almost all loaner vehicles are out with customers on any given day. My dealership schedules loaners out by customer requests, service importance, availability etc.. Therefore, if I was to call and schedule service and request a loaner, there is a 0-5 week wait. And that wait will usually be determined by importance of the service.
If the vehicle is under warranty and non-drivable (an unexpected emergency), they will try to get the owner into one immediately, or within a day or two.
If the vehicle owner just calls for an oil change and tire rotation (no emergency), expect up to a 4-5 week wait, so plan accordingly. Before Covid, it was about a 2 week wait.

4- If no loaners are available at the time, most Lincoln Dealerships will provide customer drop off service. Some dealerships use a dedicated employee driver. Others use a ride-share service. My dealership provides Uber rides home or to work, and will have them pick me up when my vehicle is ready. So if I call for a routine oil change/tire rotation that day or the next, I will usually wait at the dealership. Once in a while I’ll take the complimentary Uber ride home and back.

5- Lincoln policy is that Lincoln Concierge has the ability to provide for rental car reimbursement in cases where a dealer has no loaner vehicles available. However, this is subject to the individual situation… i.e. emergency, non-emergency, length of time the vehicle will be out of service, etc.
In all honesty, I don’t expect a complimentary loaner or rental car reimbursement for a same day oil change. Lincoln Concierge can not force a dealership to reimburse for a rental car in the above situations. In those cases, Lincoln reimburses the vehicle owner. Either way, the dealer does not eat the rental cost for covered events. Lincoln ultimately pays.
However, a Lincoln owner has every right to politely expect those things if their under-warranty vehicle will be out of service for several days or more.
Unfortunately, getting the correct information from Lincoln Concierge is also subject to the competence of the individual Lincoln Concierge representative, how polite we are, etc. etc. So if we are told no by the first Lincoln Concierge rep we speak with, call back and ask the next one.
EDIT (for clarity)- Lincoln Concierge does not “authorize”/facilitate etc. a rental when our vehicle is in for service. In most cases, actually arranging for and obtaining the rental vehicle will be up to us. What Lincoln Concierge will do is facilitate us obtaining the allowable refund, in cases where our Dealership will not do so. That is why it is always best to contact Lincoln Concierge for help/assistance. And to paraphrase inmanlanier…asking the questions in the correct manner can help us get the correct answers.

6- When no Lincoln Complimentary Loaners are available, rental car reimbursement is limited by Lincoln to a set per diem amount, and that amount varies by vehicle model. Last time I checked (several years ago), it was $45 per day for the MKZ. More expensive vehicles at the time (i.e. Continental and Navigator) had higher limits.
Lincoln pays this rental car reimbursement, not the dealership.

7- Current personal experience- At this very moment, I have a Lincoln Complimentary loaner while my MKZ is in for service. My 2018 MKZ is obviously outside the New Vehicle warranty. The loaner is a 2024 Corsair.
I called to schedule the service appointment two weeks ago (noticed a slight rear differential drip/leak).
Scheduled an appointment for last Monday (7 days ago). No loaners available until ~10/5. Wanted it fixed ASAP, so decide I’ll have to suffer with no loaner, so I schedule for last Monday (7 days ago).
Last Saturday (9 days ago) I get a call from my dealership that a loaner is available. Great news!
So my car is in since last Monday waiting for a part to arrive (tentative arrival tomorrow). I have a LincolnProtect ESP, so the full repair cost is covered.
Does it help that I also have my routine vehicle service performed at the dealership? I think that is a strong possibility.

On a related note… Although it is a lower trim level model, I’m very impressed with the Corsair loaner I’m currently driving. Nice build and drive quality, quiet, responsive etc. And this opinion comes from a person who strongly prefers and has only owned traditional cars…as opposed to not particularly liking CUV’s, SUV’s and trucks.
The only issue I’ve noticed is that the brakes are a bit grabby at the transition between light braking and heavier braking. However, I have a feeling that may have more to do with a bit of driving abuse by previous loaner drivers of the vehicle.

Let me reiterate… I do understand not all Lincoln Dealerships (or any automaker dealerships) are created equal.
Plus, I’ve been lucky enough to have a good dealership, and to get helpful/knowledgeable Lincoln Concierge representatives the vast majority of times when I needed to utilize Lincoln Concierge.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope some of this (admittedly very basic) Lincoln Complimentary Loaner information may help.

Good luck.