Tariffs and the China-built Nautilus

[Houtex]

I do not understand this logic. Why give an exemption to any USA manufacturer that chooses to produce a vehicle or phone in China when they can do so here?
Why fund the CCP instead of the American working middle class?
That is insane!

A clean break is not possible without hurting our companies, consumers etc. None of this has been well thought out. At this point it’s just a pissing contest. A more strategic time frame would make more sense. Give companies time to ramp up without hurting their bottom line so much. We should also be more strategic on the type of things we want made in the USA instead of just putting tariffs on everything. I don’t think we need sweatshops in the US. It’s not an easy problem to solve at the point where we find ourselves today. Labor is about eleven times higher in the US compared to some of these countries. Hard to compete with that. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Steve_C]

I don’t think we need sweatshops in the US....

Houtex, your comments are not worth the 2 cents value you placed on them!

More appropriately, they are priceless!
Your points are valid, well taken & well said!

I ask, it is OK to purchase goods from nations that massively utilize sweat shops, that produce the products cheaply we so desire?
Sweat shops is an issue that thankfully is prohibited in the USA, (as well as most other trade producing nations). No need to worry about that!
However, that does not prevent greedy corporations from purchasing sweat shop goods from nations such as China, the largest offender of them all.
Case point is MSLO. We were buying goods from MSLO that were produced in China sweatshops.
The CEO of MSLO was called out on it by public & social media and it aroused national attention.
Thankfully many found this MSLO practice offensive, and it had repercussions.

Our humanity as a nation is eroded when we buy from sweat shop nations because we save a few nickels over what it would cost if it were produced here, or that matter, from another human rights trade partner nation.
Problem is, like the USA, responsible human rights nations face the same problem of manufactured goods costing more than sweat shop goods!
The CCP is well aware of this, and takes advantage of of our greed for "cheaply priced" goods.

Donald Johannson, PhD (Founding Director ASU Institute of Human Origins) Has a revealing comment he made about the nature of humans.
It was published in an AARP interview a few years back.
To paraphrase, he says about the greed in human nature (In part)

Greed in humans is the desire to obtain more, and as a species we are not satisfied, we seek even more.

I find this an interesting comment because we are self-focused in our needs, and we have proved as a society that at times we do not care where we obtain these needs from, even at the expense of the nature of the humanitarian cost of these wants/desires/needs may bear!

In closing, Please be mindful of the April 15, 1989 Anniversary that is approaching.

 

[swindler]

Sadly, I think the Nautilus is not viable for Lincoln, regardless where it is built. Sales were poor when built in NA. Not much better with the CCP Nautilus import. Don't forget, the Edge was discontinued because of poor sales. Building the Naut exclusively on a single use platform made no sense,...importing the model did. As we know, rollout was less then stellar, and that reality may very well be catching up.
36k units in 2024 was an improvement in sales over the previous NA model, but not enough to justify continuing regardless of where it is built in my opinion.
Quarter 1 for 2025 is over 6% less then previous (Ford Authority website).
Hinckleys's assessment of a potential 2 year orphan is a very real possibility.

Honeymoon for the CCP Nautilus may very well be over. Not just for the reasons above. Don't forget the political feelings of the CCP world trade dominance threat that is now front and center...(in addition to tariffs, which is the main focus of this thread)! Does not look good at all.
I truly believe Bao Li and Qing Bao will also soon be a thing of the past.
They now reside at the Smithsonian Zoo in DC, so may be a good time to see them before they go back to Beijing if anyone is interested.
By 2026, I predict no CCP Nautilus and no Pandas in the USA.

I do agree with Hinckley...Can Lincoln survive with just 2 SUV's and a crossover in the lineup? Will it make sense for FoMoCo to continue the brand?
With no Nautilus, will Corsair and Aviator be real alternatives for buyers?

I was holding out that the new Oakville Plant would be the answer with an all new Nautilus and Ford Edge lineup. I do not think so anymore. It appears they will be building F-150's.

"The operation was successful....but the patient died"

Goldilocks and the Three Lincolns......
Once upon a time there were three Lincolns, who lived together in a showroom of their own, at a Lincoln dealership.
One of them was a Little Wee Corsair, and one was a Middle-size Nautilus, and the other was a Great Big Aviator.
They had each a wheelbase of their own; a little one for the Little Corsair; and a middle-sized wheelbase for the Middle-sized Nautilus; and a great big wheelbase for the Great Big Aviator.
And they had each had seats to sit in; a little seat for the Little Wee Corsair..........

I do not understand this logic. Why give an exemption to any USA manufacturer that chooses to produce a vehicle or phone in China when they can do so here?
Why fund the CCP instead of the American working middle class?
That is insane!
Do you have any idea what sort of tariff China imposes on a USA made vehicle that is exported and sold in China? It is ridiculous! They do everything they can (via high tariffs) to keep USA produced goods out!
That is why FoMoCo and others have made deals with the CCP to produce American vehicles in China to begin with!
Thankfully, we are waking up to the serious threat the CCP is inflicting on the American economy as well global trade.
I am thankful the previous US administration has taken action on this topic and the new admin. is continuing with it.
Pres. Biden himself travelled to Angola and actually blocked the BRI agreement Angola had with the CCP.
Pres. Biden secured the Lobito Corridor Pass, thus throwing a monkey wrench into the CCP's BRI, aka "The Silk Road Initiative".
The new administration is taking action action to secure the Panama Canal from falling into the hands of the CCP!
By the way, Panama has "excused" itself from and has opted out of the BRIC agreement with the CCP.

Very few reading this even understand what I am referring to above. Most do not even know what BRI or BRIC are acronyms for, let alone what these CCP policies are, and how they are designed to undermine the USA!
Most probably do not care.
I do.
You should too!

I know you may have made this comment about ownership retention as a gift from FoMoCo at end of lease as a pipe dream.
It actually would be an incredible way for the Motor Co. to "re-pay" or make whole the aggravations from the loss of value on the secondary market owners have to endure with this model.
Deflated value from "Buy-Backs being offered on the market at great value hurts the bottom line value of the Nautilus.
I even fear the value of my beloved 2023 will suffer from this...through no fault of the previous years product itself.
It will suffer because it is named "Nautilus".
Much like a family reputation being ruined by just one black sheep in the family....

I wish they would have called the Chinese Nautilus the Nautilus II, much like they did the Mustang II from the original Mustang.
Oh well...I can dream too...!

Your thoughts of leases being turned over to the leasee as compensation reminds me of the "college Tuition Loan" debates.
One thing to forgive those that have outstanding loans...but what about those that paid back the loans already?
How could FoMoCo ever repay or compensate the loyal & happy buyers for putting up with all endured with the 2024 Nautilus?
All happy 2024 Naut owners all say...I love my Chinese Nautilus...despite the "issues" or despite the "problems" or the "gremlins"...ad nauseum.
I believe all you folks should be compensated also!

If one leased a 2024 Naut that had engine failure, one thing to keep said vehicle with new engine installed, as it is not your problem after lease return.
The deflated value of that vehicle does not hurt you, with exemption that residual value after lease term would be lower, meaning you paid to much for the up front "usage portion" to start with.

If you bought your 2024 Naut, and kept it if it had a replacement engine, then you suffer because value is deflated.
In addition, it possibly may be noted on a "CARFAX" history report! What an albatross to be tossed into your boat!

All this being said...one can dream of compensation, and that is a nice dream I think all with this vehicle deserve!
I like postings that leave you with a smile after reading!

Well, not sure how anyone can conclude value's of sold & unsold Nauts will rise or may rise, but you are in the business & know more than I ever will.
You did not say what is the lease turnover (turn in?) rate, or how many lease returns and buy backs are on the lot. These will only increase in time.

What is so endearing about the 2025 Nautilus that will make folks say...gotta' get one before they are all gone?

Buying any vehicle at the end of its model run, especially low production models comes with challenges. With no replacement coming after it, parts availability and serviceability can be issues over term of ownership.

I have a 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII...gorgeous! Low production, end of the model run. Even before it was ten years old, NS availability for ABS sensors dried up, and shortly afterwards NOS as well. Now junkyard sensors are all you can find. Many, many more parts similar situation!

Can you imagine the parts situation as far as availability will be like going forward if the 2025 Naut is the end of the line?

Houtex, your comments are not worth the 2 cents value you placed on them!

More appropriately, they are priceless!
Your points are valid, well taken & well said!

I ask, it is OK to purchase goods from nations that massively utilize sweat shops, that produce the products cheaply we so desire?
Sweat shops is an issue that thankfully is prohibited in the USA, (as well as most other trade producing nations). No need to worry about that!
However, that does not prevent greedy corporations from purchasing sweat shop goods from nations such as China, the largest offender of them all.
Case point is MSLO. We were buying goods from MSLO that were produced in China sweatshops.
The CEO of MSLO was called out on it by public & social media and it aroused national attention.
Thankfully many found this MSLO practice offensive, and it had repercussions.

Our humanity as a nation is eroded when we buy from sweat shop nations because we save a few nickels over what it would cost if it were produced here, or that matter, from another human rights trade partner nation.
Problem is, like the USA, responsible human rights nations face the same problem of manufactured goods costing more than sweat shop goods!
The CCP is well aware of this, and takes advantage of of our greed for "cheaply priced" goods.

Donald Johannson, PhD (Founding Director ASU Institute of Human Origins) Has a revealing comment he made about the nature of humans.
It was published in an AARP interview a few years back.
To paraphrase, he says about the greed in human nature (In part)

Greed in humans is the desire to obtain more, and as a species we are not satisfied, we seek even more.

I find this an interesting comment because we are self-focused in our needs, and we have proved as a society that at times we do not care where we obtain these needs from, even at the expense of the nature of the humanitarian cost of these wants/desires/needs may bear!

In closing, Please be mindful of the April 15, 1989 Anniversary that is approaching.

Boy, you really found a thread you can sink your teeth into, eh @Steve_C?

 

[G-372171]

Pretty happy with our early production Hybrid, had injectors replaced under service bulletin and software recalls, been good for us. Wife loves it and if the Nautilus dies just hope parts will be available. Also just bought a 2025 Sierra Denali Ultimate with 6.2l and 37% of parts are each from Canada and Mexico. Also my 2020 Corvette has 34% from Mexico and 23% from Canada, so GM will feel some pain.

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[elsloan1]

Happy with our early produced Nautilus had injectors replaced under service bulletin and the recalls done. Other then the radio needing reset all else with our Hybrid has been good. My new Sierra Denali Ultimate has more parts from Mexico and Canada then American, 37% each country. Assembled in America and similar for my 2022 Corvette, 34% Mexico and 21% Canada. Both Ford and GM under the gun bye outsourcing vs American jobs. Nautilus is in trouble if no deal with China as a niche vehicle in the scheme of American vehicles why give Ford a break? Can Lincoln survive as Ford has canned all sedans other than Mustang. Corsair if going to be replaced needs a redo, the other vehicles also need a redo as same platform getting dated even with a refresh.

 

[Steve_C]

Boy, you really found a thread you can sink your teeth into, eh @Steve_C?

Geez....did I actually author all those comments to this thread?
No wonder why my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is flaring up!

Fellas....I gotta take a break for sure!

 

[Action]

I do not understand this logic. Why give an exemption to any USA manufacturer that chooses to produce a vehicle or phone in China when they can do so here?

An exemption may be given to certain segments to allow for time to move production or find alternative sources.

China is used for cheap labor and some other things. There is other cheap labor in other locations in Asia.
But moving a manufacturing final assembly plant is not a swift move.
Or build here with more expensive labor. Tooling up an old assembly plant is still not a swift event.

Action