Are You Happy With The Ride Quality?

Tahoe Dave

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My Lincoln
2023 Reserve
I came over to "your" site from the Navigator site. Specifically, we purchased a 2023 Navigator Reserve that now has 13K on the clock. We enjoy most everything about it however, it rides like a truck, because it is. The suspension is the F150's and the 22" tire/wheel combination amplifies every imperfection on the road. As such, I'm considering trading it in for the new 2025 Aviator. I've been told that they have a "very comfortable" ride. Before I do, who better to ask than those on this Forum.

Thanks in advance...

Dave
 
It's tall and most have short sidewalls. It'll never have the same isolated floaty feeling as a sedan. That being said, the Aviator has a very nice well controlled ride that isn't too prone to the rocking bouncy motions of true trucks, though it's a bit more than my MKT which is a little lower. Cruising at 80-85 you can carry on quiet conversation and be confident that the suspension will do a nice job keeping you both comfortable and safe. Around town and at lower speeds it feels properly isolating with the caveat that it will have more body motion over large imperfections than a traditional sedan would have.

I have a 21 reserve with the adaptive, not air, suspension and 20" wheels.
 
Very nice ride. Just test drive one, you'll see.
 
I have the 22" wheels and have had a few issues. At around 1,500 miles I started getting a vibration around 70mph, then 65 mph. Took it to the dealer they replaced two tires. Everything was fine then around 3,500 miles the vibration started again. Took it back to the dealer and this time they found the insulation in the tire coming loose. They removed the insulation from all four tires and the car handles great. I have noticed more road noise now. To be honest if I did it all over again I would go with the 20" rims and have the larger sidewall.
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I have the 22" wheels and have had a few issues. At around 1,500 miles I started getting a vibration around 70mph, then 65 mph. Took it to the dealer they replaced two tires. Everything was fine then around 3,500 miles the vibration started again. Took it back to the dealer and this time they found the insulation in the tire coming loose. They removed the insulation from all four tires and the car handles great. I have noticed more road noise now. To be honest if I did it all over again I would go with the 20" rims and have the larger sidewall.
Thanks for that feedback. I've decided to give the Navigator one more chance. In doing so, I'm having a set of 20" tires and wheels installed tomorrow. We enjoy most everything about the Navigator, if I get the ride to improve mission accomplished. You would think after spending $112K one would not have to go through this!
 
Took it back to the dealer and this time they found the insulation in the tire coming loose. They removed the insulation from all four tires and the car handles great.
This is a new one on me - I've never heard of insulation in/on tires. Do you have any pictures?
 
The suspension is the F150's and the 22" tire/wheel combination amplifies every imperfection on the road. As such, I'm considering trading it in for the new 2025 Aviator. I've been told that they have a "very comfortable" ride. Before I do, who better to ask than those on this Forum.

Thanks in advance...

Dave

I'd be astonished if the Navigator is the 'same' suspension as the F150. Lincoln has always strived to have a much more refined and sophisticated ride from their Ford counterparts - especially when you get to the upscale models.

For example, the Aviator front ends use double wishbones (SLA... short Arm - Long Arm), vs. the modified struts design of the Explorer. The Aviator is a more more costly and sophisticated design than the counterpart. I am highly confident they don't spend this kid of money in manufacturing unless they expect to receive a clear customer perception as to the benefits of the better (Aviator) design.

Your car fundamentally does have the double wishbones, like the F150 - but from there the engineers have huge latitude in changing numerous part details, like springs/rates, bushing durometers, sway bars, shock damping and rebound rates and tire specs. You can make the same suspensions feel totally different with all those parameters. I've heard from conversations from folks that they love their Navigators - never once did they complain about the ride. Heck, our 2012 Ford Expedition XLT really impressed my wife and I with it's very smooth and somewhat quiet ride.

Google searches state all 2018 and later Navigators have adaptive suspensions? Is your car such a suspension? If so, this means now you have a computer getting involved as well. If a sensor is a bit out of whack, perhaps that could impact the ride quality. The easy test is go to the dealer and test drive one on the lot (at your trim level if possible). See if it feels any different.

Please let us know the outcome.

EDIT - reread - I must have been on drugs - cleaned up the grammar and extraneous wording a bit - sorry for that!
 
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I've written about my hatred for the 22" Goodyear Eagle Comfort tires that come on Aviators with 22" wheels. After driving 2 hrs in our 2020 Explorer ST with 20" Michelins, to pick up the new Aviator I couldn't believe how the Aviator wandered all over the road. Some of it was the tire width(275) and 40 series tire profile, but it was likely the poor quality of the Goodyear tires. An alignment helped a bit, but I pretty much put up with them till I could get from Naples, FL to our Iowa summer home, where I had a set of 18" Michelin Pilot Sport 4 SUV tires on wheels that fit the Aviator and had been on our Explorer. The ride and handling changed like night and day! Those 22" Aviator wheels weighed 30 lbs a wheel more which certainly helped both, but the Ultra Performance design of the tires, probably made the most difference in handling. the 60 series sidewalls definitely helped the ride, but likely not as much as a lower performance 60 series tire would have.

The front suspension on the Aviator is much different than the Explorer. Those with 22" wheels thru 2024 also get the adaptive suspension which both measures the up-down movement and adjusts it electrically (likely magnetically changing the viscosity of the shock oil) similar to GM/Delphi Magnetic ride option.

After this tire/wheel change, we are extremely happy with the responsive handling and quality ride. We've owned Cadillacs, other Lincolns, and many other performance and luxury vehicles, and as our long distance driver, we feel our Aviator is likely the best car we have owned (so far....)!

Massive wheels may look impressive and "Manley" but they suck for handling and ride quality. And, they hurt stopping distances and acceleration, because one is speeding up and slowing down a great deal more of unsprung rotating weight.
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Well, you learn something new every day. Talk about a band-aid! I'll forward this to my bud in the business and see if he's ever heard of it.

My guess was that the glue between the 'insulation' and the inside of the tire was MIC (made in you-know-where)!
 
I have the 22" wheels and have had a few issues. At around 1,500 miles I started getting a vibration around 70mph, then 65 mph. Took it to the dealer they replaced two tires. Everything was fine then around 3,500 miles the vibration started again. Took it back to the dealer and this time they found the insulation in the tire coming loose. They removed the insulation from all four tires and the car handles great. I have noticed more road noise now. To be honest if I did it all over again I would go with the 20" rims and have the larger sidewall.
I had a real bad vibration around 100kph so I took it to the dealer too. They removed the insulation in all 4 tires and vibration is gone now.
 
Weird answer but:

I have. 2023 BL Aviator that comes with the 22” wheels and they look cool as hell, but they have the low ratio tires so they transmit every road crack right through the whole frame and even through the steering wheel. That said I think the ride is smooth and luxurious so how can it be both?

My guess is 20” wheels would make a big difference over those cracks. However, entering my subdivision I cross a bridge at 35 mph and there are like 3 whoopididooe’s that lift the whole vehicle three times and it softly loads and unloads like a luxury vehicle should in my opinion. I don’t have the air suspension option but it has the adaptive suspension standard on the BL.

So yes and no… 🤪
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If you really want to change your ride quality, get a set of 24" wheels/tires like are available on the 2025 Navigator and many GM 2025 SUV's.
 
I had a '07 F150 that had 20" Pirellis on it. It rode like a covered wagon. A lady I worked with had the same truck and tires. She changed the tires to Michelin and it solved the problem. More recently I had a '16 Limited Explorer. When the factory installed 20" tires wore down I put Michelins on it and the ride quality improved.
 
Well, you learn something new every day. Talk about a band-aid! I'll forward this to my bud in the business and see if he's ever heard of it.

My guess was that the glue between the 'insulation' and the inside of the tire was MIC (made in you-know-where)!
I checked with my bud in the business. They service more high end cars than not. They've seen more and more OEM tires come in with this sound deadening material.

In more than one instance they've noted that the glue became partially delaminated, enabling the remainder of the material to flip over onto itself, however still affixed on the one end. Obviously that then shifts the weight distribution, concentrating in one area and throws the balance off. They remove the entire material, re-balance and that solves the vibration issues.
 
Some years ago I had balance issues with 20" wheels on a GMC Denali XL SUV. Dealer installed balancing powder. What a crock and to get it out was a real mess! Finally took it to a tire store and they knew how to actually balance the tires. Dealer employees were AWOL!

I imagine some tire mfgs use this product because lower profile tires are generally noisier and auto mfgs want the look but also don't want the noise. I wonder how many of these tires are actually defective before being installed at the factory, or the installation itself potentially causes the separation of the sound deadening material. Seems like a "Lipstick on a Pig" approach. Good looking "Pigs" but still pigs!!!
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I just put new tires on my '21 Aviator at 30k miles. The Pirelli's were getting close to the wear bars and winter is coming on, so I thought now would be a good time. I deliberately avoided EV tires with the sound deadening foam inside the tread because I've heard some stories about the foam delaminating and causing balance issues. The Yokohoma X-CVs I bought seem to be quiet enough without the foam.
 
I'm interested to find out what the ride is like. I'll be picking up a 2025 Reserve, 201A package with the 22" wheels in a say or two. The dealer is ordering Toyo Observe GSi-6 winter tires for me. The total cost of the tires, balancing and installation etc is $2600 which the dealer is covering.

Peter
 
I imagine some tire mfgs use this product because lower profile tires are generally noisier and auto mfgs want the look but also don't want the noise.
This is 100% the auto manufacturer NVH engineers in concert with OEM tire manufacture's coordinator with said manufacturer. They work together to get the overall NVH to the desire of the car manufacture's NVH engineering team. In some cases, such a task is sub'd out to a given large scale automotive company. In the case of the R spec version of the Hyundai Genesis sedan (later labeled the G80) - Hyundai contracted with Sachs to do from what I understand ALL the suspension development (design, and most importantly tuning). In that case, instead of Hyundai working with Michelin, Pirelli, whomever) - Sachs acted in that role.
 
Some of you may have seen my prior posts talking about OEM (i.e. down the assembly line) tires. Last year I acquired a set, waiting for when my factory tires wore out. I just replaced them a few weeks ago at 55K miles before a 720 mile trip each way to/from North Carolina. As I was confident would be the case - we could tell absolutely no difference we had another set of tires on. The ride, noise (I should say lack thereof), wet and dry traction were identical from our perspective. We're very happy with the 255/55R20XL 110V MICHELIN PRIMACY A/S BW tires. Michelin part number 92446.
 
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