1969 Mark 3 Alternator Questions

[Narti]

Hello,

My friend has a 1969 Mark 3 with a 460 motor that I've been helping him with. He has an issue with the alternator not charging the battery. From what we can gather from the parts store and factory service manual, this model Lincoln has some sort of internal voltage regulator on the back of it. We've been told that this is a one year only type alternator. Anyone know if that is actually the truth? We are having issues getting an exact duplicate and have been told by local parts stores and a local electrical shop, that we can either go to a modern one wire type alternator (which might cause the ammeter gauge in the dash cluster to not work) or we could use a traditional external voltage regulator type alternator and add a voltage regulator box to the car. Does anyone here have any experience with this type of charging system and what would be the most easiest and dependable fix for the car? I am attaching some photos of the alternator in question. In the pics, you can see a black box on the back of the alternator which I believe is the voltage regulator. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Action]

Mark III had 3 or 4 alternator choices.

The internal regulator was only on one of those alternators. Not all of them.
It was not common option and a number of those were converted to external regulators which is not difficult to do.

Both systems will work well. The issue is parts availablility and cost. The external regulated system is much cheaper and more common than the internally regulated one. And the car was made for both.

It is not a one year option. I believe all years of Mark III had this option as well as Continental and Thunderbird.

I would never go to a one wire alternator. If you are going to modify, go to externally regulated. You will have to do a little wiring. But not much as pig tails for both the alternator and the external regulator are available.

I will see if I can dig up some more data.

Action

 

[Action]

A word on one wire -
Anyone can install one. There is only one wire, right!! So for the guy that has a problem locking the doors, this is the alternator.

Down sides are that typically they take more rpm to begin charging and they maintain a specified voltage at the alternator terminal, not at the system level. An excellant choice for a vehicle with not that many power items and are operated at higher RPM. They are internally regulated. And they are not as efficient. Plus no charging system status or warning as you pointed out.

Action

 

[Action]

There are 8 or 9 (internal type) regulators for sale on Ebay right now.
Part numbers are
C8SZ-10316-A Ford #
GR-383 Motorcraft number

Action

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[Narti]

Thanks so much for the education and part numbers, Action! I think we are going to purchase an external type alternator and associated voltage regulator and go that route.
I’m so glad that there are still helpful and friendly places like this on the Internet!

 

[Action]

From the 1970 FLM shop manual

Five Autolite alternators were offered across all model lines. 38 amp, 42, amp, 55amp, 55 amp with integral regulator and 65 amp.
In addition to that one Leece Neville alternator was offered in only a 65 amp variation.

The 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator was only offered on Ford Thunderbird, Lincoln Continental and Continental Mark III

From the 1965 to 1972 LM Parts Catalog
Only 1969 and 1970 Mark III made before 10/1/1969 had the 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator as an option.
And 1970 Lincoln Continental without heated backlite.

From the 1965 to 1972 Ford Parts Catalog
Only 1969 and 1970 Thunderbird made before 9/15/1969 had the 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator as an option.

The part number for the 55 amp alternator using the integrated regulator is
C8SZ 10346 A or the updated D0SZ 10346 A
GL 79 or the GL 90 Motorcraft numbers

I always thought I wanted to upgrade to the 55 amp alternator with the integrated regulator. However, my 1970 Mark III was a later build (March of 1970) and has the heated backlite.

Optional equipment always fascinates me. Rare optional equipment, even more so.

Action

 

[Narti]

From the 1970 FLM shop manual

Five Autolite alternators were offered across all model lines. 38 amp, 42, amp, 55amp, 55 amp with integral regulator and 65 amp.
In addition to that one Leece Neville alternator was offered in only a 65 amp variation.

The 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator was only offered on Ford Thunderbird, Lincoln Continental and Continental Mark III

From the 1965 to 1972 LM Parts Catalog
Only 1969 and 1970 Mark III made before 10/1/1969 had the 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator as an option.
And 1970 Lincoln Continental without heated backlite.

From the 1965 to 1972 Ford Parts Catalog
Only 1969 and 1970 Thunderbird made before 9/15/1969 had the 55 amp Autolite alternator with integral regulator as an option.

The part number for the 55 amp alternator using the integrated regulator is
C8SZ 10346 A or the updated D0SZ 10346 A
GL 79 or the GL 90 Motorcraft numbers

I always thought I wanted to upgrade to the 55 amp alternator with the integrated regulator. However, my 1970 Mark III was a later build (March of 1970) and has the heated backlite.

Optional equipment always fascinates me. Rare optional equipment, even more so.

Action

Hey Action…what the heck is a “heated backlite”???

 

[Action]

The rear windshield. It is a Ford term.

And a heated backlite would be the option with the electric grid. (AKA a rear windshield defroster)
Mark III had the option of a defogger as well.

So there were 3 option for the rear piece of glass
Nothing
Rear defogger. A blower motor back there to blow air on the inside of teh rear glass
Or a heated backlite. The heated backlite drew a lot of current, That 55 amp with the integral regulator was likely not up for the job with a heated backlite. Further confirmation of that guess is the very limited application and short duration.

All modern cars have integral regulator now. Ford was rolling out things that were way ahead of the time. Just like the braking system in Mark III. Analog anti-lock rear brakes. A first in domestic auto manufacturers. Called Sure-Track Brake System

Action

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[Narti]

You are a wealth of info!! Love it!!

 

[Narti]

I see you're in Phoenix. My son worked in Prescott, AZ a couple of summers ago. I visited him....beautiful part of the World....but sooooo hot!!

 

[Action]

Maybe not a wealth of info, I just know which rock to turn over to get the info!
My memory is not as good as it once was.

Yeah it is hot here. Just not this summer.
And the fall and spring are pretty awesome as far as temperature. If you are a golfer, (I am not) this is pretty close to paradise. There are over 400 courses in Maricopa County. One could go golfing every day of the year and not play the same course. I work with a guy that goes golfing even this time of the year. He gets there very early and gets in nine holes before it is too hot.

Action

 

[CanadaMoose]

Hey, seeing as it's somewhat related, I was wondering if I could glean some help. My Mark III had an Autolite Alternator with the Integral Regulator. I have a suspicion that my replacement (PureEnergy) does not have a regulator. The little black plate wasn't there, and neither was the third pin. According to my shop manuals that plate was the "Integral Regulator" and the third pin was the "Regulator Battery Terminal". Do I need an external regulator now? Can I transplant the integral regulator instead and just wire the battery terminal to the regulator battery terminal to make up the missing pin?

That feels like a bad idea but I'm actually curious after looking at what makes up these external ones. And since I'll likely play it safe and get an external regulator, does electric vs mechanical matter?

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[Action]

An aftermarket external alternator can not be used with your original system.
Either internally regulated or externally regulated.

If you choose to go to an externally regulated system you will need the external regulator and to change the charging system wiring as well.

Action

 

[emtywalets]

Mark III had 3 or 4 alternator choices.

The internal regulator was only on one of those alternators. Not all of them.
It was not common option and a number of those were converted to external regulators which is not difficult to do.

Both systems will work well. The issue is parts availablility and cost. The external regulated system is much cheaper and more common than the internally regulated one. And the car was made for both.

It is not a one year option. I believe all years of Mark III had this option as well as Continental and Thunderbird.

I would never go to a one wire alternator. If you are going to modify, go to externally regulated. You will have to do a little wiring. But not much as pig tails for both the alternator and the external regulator are available.

I will see if I can dig up some more data.

Action

I'm having the same issue. How do I convert to external regulator..?
Thank you

 

[emtywalets]

Mark III had 3 or 4 alternator choices.

The internal regulator was only on one of those alternators. Not all of them.
It was not common option and a number of those were converted to external regulators which is not difficult to do.

Both systems will work well. The issue is parts availablility and cost. The external regulated system is much cheaper and more common than the internally regulated one. And the car was made for both.

It is not a one year option. I believe all years of Mark III had this option as well as Continental and Thunderbird.

I would never go to a one wire alternator. If you are going to modify, go to externally regulated. You will have to do a little wiring. But not much as pig tails for both the alternator and the external regulator are available.

I will see if I can dig up some more data.

Action

I'm having the same issue. I would like to convert to external regulator but I can't seem to find how to wire it..any help would be very grateful.
Thank you

 

[Action]

I am out of the country for now.
I will post back next week.

Action

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[Action]

From the shop manual.
Converting to an external VR -
Leave the black wire to the battery + or starter relay terminal the same. AND run a wire from the starter relay to the VR A+ terminal.
Connect the stator term from the alternator to the new VR S terminal
Connect the field term from the alternator to the new VR F terminal
Connect the ground from the alternator to the mounting bolt on the new VR
Connect a wire from inside the vehicle at the indicator light to the I terminal on the VR

And if it was me, I would not do a conversion.

Action

 

[danreb23]

I'm having the same issue. I would like to convert to external regulator but I can't seem to find how to wire it..any help would be very grateful.
Thank you

Were you able to rewire with an external vr ? If so could I look at your set up? I’m having issues trying to convert it to an external voltage regulator with a new alternator