Will You Consider a Battery Electric or Hybrid Electric Lincoln Purchase or Lease in The Future?

[John M]

With all of the automotive manufacturers developing Battery or Hybrid Battery powered vehicles, I though it would be good to hear from current Lincoln Owners about their views on the Electric future.

Battery Vehicles: Powered by a large battery with a driving range on a full charge of typically 300 miles. Charged usually from a $2,000 power charging station installed in the owners garage. Requires hours to recharge to a full battery.

Hybrid Vehicles: Powered by electricity for short 30 miles trips and when battery depleted, gasoline engine starts to recharge the battery and power the vehicle. Can be powered by gasoline for long trips and be recharged for short trips in your garage power station.

 

[John M]

At the moment my Aviator meets all my mobility needs. With a cottage that is 600 miles from my home a Battery Electric Vehicle is not in my future. A Hybrid Aviator would work but the additional purchase cost does not offset the gas savings for a 2 or 3 year lease. I therefore will plan to stay with gasoline powered vehicles.

 

[Action]

Battery powered vehicles are definitely not a cheap ride.
Adding up all of the costs, the battery powered is just not cost efficient versus gas
Will the electric grid handle a whole market change to batteries? Don;t think so.
Owning one will require a change in habits too. "Hey honey did you plug in?"
On occasion, I tow a 7500 pound trailer for fun. Batteries really are not up for that job yet.
Which is why I own a number of different vehicles. (Besides my hobby cars)


And none of that matters much to me. I will never give up my addiction to gasoline powered engines with pistons. Just look at my signature line! (Which does not include an LTD convertible BTW) I have already told my wife that when I go, I ain't going in an electric hearse! I need to update my will.

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[jzweedyk]

There are certain circumstances where an electric vehicle is really good. For most Americans it isn't. False promises. If it succeeds you will need to make an appointment to charge your vehicle. Our electric grid cannot handle a county of electric cars, and it would take decades to build it out to handle it. Plus how much will your vehicle be worth in 10 years when it needs a complete battery replacement? Batteries ain't cheap. I am out.

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[John M]

With all of the automotive manufacturers developing Battery or Hybrid Battery powered vehicles, I though it would be good to hear from current Lincoln Owners about their views on the Electric future.

Battery Vehicles: Powered by a large battery with a driving range on a full charge of typically 300 miles. Charged usually from a $2,000 power charging station installed in the owners garage. Requires hours to recharge to a full battery.

Hybrid Vehicles: Powered by electricity for short 30 miles trips and when battery depleted, gasoline engine starts to recharge the battery and power the vehicle. Can be powered by gasoline for long trips and be recharged for short trips in your garage power station.

I worked for Ford for 36 years - Electrical Engineer. I am afraid that the all the car companies are about to build a lot of electric cars & trucks that the customers do not want and will not buy. In the 1980s gasoline went to $4. Ford rushed to build small cars. When the price went back down to $2 they could not sell them and forced dealers to accept them to get the cars they could sell.

Then we have electricity. As the demand increases, the price will go up. Eventually it will be more expensive to drive an EV than an ICE vehicle.. And it is unlikely that we will have an adequate supply of electricity... Stay tuned...

 

[Action]

I worked for Ford for 36 years - Electrical Engineer. I am afraid that the all the car companies are about to build a lot of electric cars & trucks that the customers do not want and will not buy. In the 1980s gasoline went to $4. Ford rushed to build small cars. When the price went back down to $2 they could not sell them and forced dealers to accept them to get the cars they could sell.

I worked for Ford in the 80s too. (Field Service) I remember the Sales Division guy talking to person in the dealership about order placements.
¨Sure you can have those two ´sold´ F150s, but you have to order 3 Escorts. You know this is NOT an F150 dealership. This is a Ford Dealership.¨

Action

 

[tgara]

As I’ve posted here elsewhere, electric vehicles can be a viable choice in certain situations such as in an urban environment where charging stations are more abundant, if you have only short distances to travel, or if you are not carrying or towing a lot of gear, kids, dogs, etc. But for the substantial majority of people in the US, those are not normal operating conditions and thus an electric (or even hybrids) vehicle is not a real choice. There are horror stories on the web about families trying to do a cross country trip in an EV and the adventures they have…

 

[tgara]

Ford says top Lincoln dealers face $900,000 bill to sell EVs

Lincoln stores that want to sell EVs will need to invest more than four times as much as Cadillac is asking its retailers to spend, mainly to cover the cost of installing chargers for public use and service needs.

www.autonews.com

This cost is going to get passed on to ALL Lincoln customers, regardless of whether they have an EV or not. Thanks EV owners!

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[jzweedyk]

An all electric vehicle has way too many disadvantages for me. A hybrid is OK, but you are always hauling around the extra 1,000+ pounds and trying to stop it. So I am out.

 

[jkeaton]

No. End of story.

 

[Garrett7864]

About five years ago, I was, as an engineer, ready to embrace the idea of hybrid cars, or all electric. But studying the possibility of car fires, I became convinced that the technology is not advanced enough yet with regard to battery safety. Currently, if one of those batteries becomes damaged, there’s no putting out the fire. One small short in one of the hundreds of cells leads to a cascade runaway where the whole thing burns. Just Google “Tesla fires”. And a few months ago, and ocean freighter hauling Audis and Volkswagens and Porsches sunk in the ocean, because one of the cars’ battery systems caught fire, and they couldn’t stop it from moving to other cars, sinking the ship. Recently, one of the manufacturers warned owners of their electric cars to park outside, rather than in a garage. That was until they fix the problem. I’m too old to risk having my house burned down and start over again. Someday this potential hazard will be fixed. But it hasn’t been fixed yet.

 

[Action]

The Porsche- and Lamborghini-Carrying Cargo Ship Has Sunk in the Atlantic Ocean

The cause of the initial fire on February 10, 2022 on the Felicity Ace is not known and may never be known. The Felicity Ace sank 20 days later in rough seas with about 4000 cars in about 10,000 feet of water. Contributing to the fire were those lithium ion batteries in many vehicles.

The Azorean harbormaster made a statement that the batteries caused the fire. However that was speculation. Whatever the cause of the fire, those lithium ion batteries created a situation where the fire could not be extinguished easily. It took a week to put out the fire. Those batteries create a special type of hazard that can cause a lot of damage.

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[11MarkX]

Whether sitting on a gasoline bomb or battery bomb, both are not a good idea and explosions happen at almost the same rate per capita, however:

1) Unless you recharge from solar panels, EV's are worse for the environment. (Digging for lithium/rare metals, more mfr emissions, less recycleable material - engines are recycleable, batteries are not)
2) As more people use "fast charge" stations, the price of electricity will rise for everyone.
3) EV's now cost about the same as ICE to manufacture, but cost more to buy. (reason mfrs are pushing them.)
4) Batteries last approx 150K (less time than engines.)
5) Some 2023 engines are near zero emissions, especially the euro diesels. Manufacturers have already made experimental engines that clean the air. (air out of tailpipe is cleaner than city air)

I'm buying gas until they perfect solid state batteries or hydrogen (supposedly 2030).

I'm guessing the first pic was a Mitsu Mirage vs a Telsa but don't know. I tried to find unbiased ones but they probably don't exist, however I think they give a good perspective.

 

[tgara]

About five years ago, I was, as an engineer, ready to embrace the idea of hybrid cars, or all electric. But studying the possibility of car fires, I became convinced that the technology is not advanced enough yet with regard to battery safety. Currently, if one of those batteries becomes damaged, there’s no putting out the fire. One small short in one of the hundreds of cells leads to a cascade runaway where the whole thing burns. Just Google “Tesla fires”. And a few months ago, and ocean freighter hauling Audis and Volkswagens and Porsches sunk in the ocean, because one of the cars’ battery systems caught fire, and they couldn’t stop it from moving to other cars, sinking the ship. Recently, one of the manufacturers warned owners of their electric cars to park outside, rather than in a garage. That was until they fix the problem. I’m too old to risk having my house burned down and start over again. Someday this potential hazard will be fixed. But it hasn’t been fixed yet.

Similar thing happened last summer during the Ian hurricane. The hurricane cause a lot of flooding, which of course included property as well as many vehicles. Well some of those vehicles were electrics (Teslas or whatever) with large high voltage batteries that exploded when they got submerged in the floodwaters. Friends down there said they heard a steady stream of explosions for several days after the hurricane subsided. The running joke was, after hearing a big boom, "There goes another Tesla!".

 

[tgara]

The Porsche- and Lamborghini-Carrying Cargo Ship Has Sunk in the Atlantic Ocean

The cause of the initial fire on February 10, 2022 on the Felicity Ace is not known and may never be known. The Felicity Ace sank 20 days later in rough seas with about 4000 cars in about 10,000 feet of water. Contributing to the fire were those lithium ion batteries in many vehicles.

The Azorean harbormaster made a statement that the batteries caused the fire. However that was speculation. Whatever the cause of the fire, those lithium ion batteries created a situation where the fire could not be extinguished easily. It took a week to put out the fire. Those batteries create a special type of hazard that can cause a lot of damage.

Action

The fires on the Felicity Ace were confirmed to be battery fires from EVs

Report Says Burning Ship Carrying Porsches, Bentleys, VWs, Many EVs

The salvage crew working on the burning Felicity Ace ship now say electric-vehicle batteries are part of the reason it is still aflame after several days, the Wall Street Journal is reporting.

www.autoweek.com

A fleet of burning EVs aboard a transport ship is terrifying. So, one Norwegian shipping company isn’t taking that risk any longer.

Norwegian Shipping Company Bans Electrified Vehicles Over Fire Fears | Carscoops

The company says that its ships are not equipped to fight a lithium-ion battery fire at sea

www.carscoops.com

 

[Action]

The CAUSE if the fire is unknown.
From the link that was used

Report Says Burning Ship Carrying Porsches, Bentleys, VWs, Many EVs

The salvage crew working on the burning Felicity Ace ship now say electric-vehicle batteries are part of the reason it is still aflame after several days, the Wall Street Journal is reporting.

www.autoweek.com

"We have no idea yet what caused the fire."

and from the update in the link

"It is too early to speculate on the cause of the incident."

EVs on fire are a bad thing. A very bad thing. And the EVs WERE on fire. No question about that.
The cause of the start of the fire is unknown. And will likely never be known.

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[jeffcarl]

No. End of story.

What he said

 

[tgara]

Ford is terminating valuable engineers and other personnel involved in traditional internal combustion car manufacturing, all in an effort to free up money for its cash-sucking EV boondoggle.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

And this won't help....

Ford cuts prices on electric Mustang Mach-E, following Tesla's lead

Ford said Monday it will lower the price of the Mach-E, which is comparable to Tesla's Model Y, by an average of about $4,500, depending on the model.

www.cnbc.com

The Detroit automaker said Monday it will lower pricing of the Mach-E, which is comparable to Tesla’s Model Y, by an average of about $4,500, depending on the model.
…the price cuts will mean not all Mach-E models, based on the trim, will be profitable on a per-unit basis, according to Marin Gjaja, Chief Customer Officer of Ford’s electric vehicle business. He said Mach-E production is expected to increase from 78,000 vehicles to 130,000 units annually.

“We are responding to changes in the marketplace,” Gjaja said during a media briefing, referencing new federal EV incentives and Tesla’s price cuts.

So Ford is going to lose money on a per unit basis, but try to make it up in volume. That’s a bold strategy.

And since Ford is “responding to changes in the marketplace” by losing money on a per unit basis on its electric vehicles – a product on which it has foolishly staked its future - this next story isn’t too surprising…

Ford CEO Farley “Frustrated” by $2 Billion Loss for 2022 - The Detroit Bureau

Ford CEO Jim Farley expressed frustration with the company’s 2022 financial results, which saw the automaker finish the year in the red despite increasing revenue by 16% year over year. Find out why the company lost money and how things will change in 2023 at TheDetroitBureau.com.

www.thedetroitbureau.com

...for the full year, Ford brought in $158.1 billion in revenue. That’s a 16% increase compared with 2021’s full year revenue number of $136.3 billion. As noted, the company lost $2 billion for the full year, unlike the prior year where it reported net income of $17.9 billion.

With Ford religiously pursuing the EV fantasy, its profitability took a negative turn of almost $20 billion year over year. Jeez... Ford is a catastrophically mismanaged company and investors are taking note.

Ford Stock Hit by Deutsche Bank Downgrade

Ford (F) stock is falling on Friday after the automobile company's shares were hit with a downgrade from Deutsche Bank analysts.

investorplace.com

Ford stock is falling on Friday after the automobile company’s shares were hit with a downgrade. Deutsche Bank analysts are behind the downgrade as they dropped Ford stock from a “hold” rating to a “sell” rating.

 

[John M]

Toyota is not moving for EVs at warp speed. They believe that they can have a bigger impact on the environment with hybrids. With a shortage of lithium batteries in the future they can build 10 times as many hybrids because hybrid batteries are smaller. Customers need no charging equipment, no range anxiety. It may be a winning strategy in the long run.

 

[TheJimer]

As others have stated, the technology has not yet caught up to the dream. The infrastructure can't support the added demand, there are safety issues, the current EV range is not adequate for the average Americans needs, there is not enough charging stations, home charging stations are expensive and no one has come up with a safe plan to dispose of all of these batteries in the next ten years!

We are moving way to fast on this green deal; all because a wacky congresswomen and a small group of testimony for hire environmental experts have predicted an environmental doomsday in 10 years. Interestingly, there are an equal number of environmental experts that dispute the doomsday thesis, but for what ever reason rather then listening to them, we are going to just forge ahead and spend trillions of dollars on an ill-conceived plan that is gong to permanently disrupt our society. And they are not stopping at EV's; they want to change the way we cook our food, eliminate farting cows and decide what materials we use to make our cloths too.

Anyone that has observed the U.S Congress for awhile can attest the we have 535 habitual procrastinators that have a track record not doing anything until the absolute bitter end, but yet almost without hesitation they jumped all-in slapping untold sums of our money on the table to fund an unproven theory. Has anyone ever wondered why? What's the motivation!

In recent years we have made tremendous progress in cleaning up our environment and technology is permitting us to do more and more every day. I believe that rather then taking an all-in approach on electric, we should utilize all energy sources and let the consumer decide what works best for their life style. You should be able to decide if you want to drive an electric, hybrid or gasoline power car rather then a one size fits all dictatorial approach.

You can call me an old set in my ways guy, but my goal is to be the very last person on the planet to be forced by our government to get rid of my gas guzzling air polluting cars!

Jim