Does the PHEV system charge the 12V battery?

[TimCooper]

After having a 2020 Corsair reserve for a few years I know the issues of draining the 12V battery if not driven too much. I resorted to a trickle charger to help this situation.
What I’m not clear on is in my new 2022 GT PHEV, will the system also charge the 12V battery eliminating the need for trickle charger?
I have done some research on Google regarding this but there isn’t a clear explanation. Any one wish to chime in?

 

[NJRonbo]

After having a 2020 Corsair reserve for a few years I know the issues of draining the 12V battery if not driven too much. I resorted to a trickle charger to help this situation.
What I’m not clear on is in my new 2022 GT PHEV, will the system also charge the 12V battery eliminating the need for trickle charger?
I have done some research on Google regarding this but there isn’t a clear explanation. Any one wish to chime in?

HeywardJr seems to be the expert on this topic.

I can only relate to things I have read. There has been a multitude of issues where after a few months vehicles would fail to start due to a dead battery caused by a lack of driving, too much EV driving, and/or not enough gas driving. Not sure which.

I am still coming to terms with this and am very concerned as I own a 2022 GT.

I know HeywardJr is using a trickle charger. I bought one for myself but using it on my Mom's 1998/99 Mercury Sable at the moment.

Will wait for his detailed response but I wanted to chime in and say that there is an issue.

 

[nmbchemist]

I too am concerned about this issue with the 12 volt battery. I suspect that the typical buyer of the GT paid the extra bucks because they can make extensive use of the EV capability. I have had mine for only two months and have made enough longer trips that the battery should be OK, but that will not be the the norm. I consider the use of a trickle charger a major nuisance.

 

[kingdre]

Im almost 20k miles in. My new job will be 3 miles one way, however, I still will drive to and from church twice a week to keep the ICE charging the 12v.

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[heywardjr]

I am surprised that Lincoln did not provide some trickle charge from the EV battery to the 12 Volt battery in the rear of the car. Tesla has a battery system that is all encompassed and the EV battery supplies everything as needed. I don't know if they have a 12 volt or 48 volt battery for the passenger compartment. Yes, the trickle charger can be an annoyance. I had to have ti with my 2008 Ford Sport Trac Adrenalin as well as my 2016 Ford Fusion Hybrid because I worked out of my home office and never commuted to the corporate office. I would find the cars would have battery issues after sitting for a few weeks. So, I got used to just hooking them up and then I was fully charged whenever I went anywhere. So, for me it was because of the cars sitting too long and all cars lose power over time if not used because they have various sensors that are active 100% such as burglar alarms, car locks, bluetooth, car internet modems (some are on all the time while others are not).

 

[NJRonbo]

I am surprised that Lincoln did not provide some trickle charge from the EV battery to the 12 Volt battery in the rear of the car. Tesla has a battery system that is all encompassed and the EV battery supplies everything as needed. I don't know if they have a 12 volt or 48 volt battery for the passenger compartment. Yes, the trickle charger can be an annoyance. I had to have ti with my 2008 Ford Sport Trac Adrenalin as well as my 2016 Ford Fusion Hybrid because I worked out of my home office and never commuted to the corporate office. I would find the cars would have battery issues after sitting for a few weeks. So, I got used to just hooking them up and then I was fully charged whenever I went anywhere. So, for me it was because of the cars sitting too long and all cars lose power over time if not used because they have various sensors that are active 100% such as burglar alarms, car locks, bluetooth, car internet modems (some are on all the time while others are not).

Heyward,

Been trying to get this answer from you in the many threads you have brought this up

What specifically causes the battery to go dead?

Is it too much EV driving and not enough gas driving? Too much gas driving and not enough EV driving?

 

[Action]

Heyward,

Been trying to get this answer from you in the many threads you have brought this up

What specifically causes the battery to go dead?

Is it too much EV driving and not enough gas driving? Too much gas driving and not enough EV driving?

What he stated above (vehicle sitting for a few weeks or more on a 08 Sport Trac - which is only a gasoline powered vehicle) is a battery going dead because of non-use from a parasitic drain or draw. Vehicles built in the last couple of decades have a lot of electronics to do all the things we want in a modern vehicle. The issue with electronics is they continue to draw power or electrical current (a very tiny amount) with the engine turned off. This is called a parasitic drain. Usually what is an acceptable electrical drain is 50 milliamps. Or 50 thousandths of an amp. That kind of electrical current draw is acceptable as long as the vehicle is started in a week or so. Let the vehicle sit for longer like weeks at a time and that kind of draw depletes the battery capacity so much so there is not enough battery capacity to start the gasoline engine.

In an EV or hybrid, I do not have the answer. For a gasoline engine that sits for weeks a trickle charger is a good or at least an acceptable solution versus disconnecting the battery which would be a different solution.

Action

 

[heywardjr]

Heyward,

Been trying to get this answer from you in the many threads you have brought this up

What specifically causes the battery to go dead?

Is it too much EV driving and not enough gas driving? Too much gas driving and not enough EV driving?

It's sitting not getting driven every day or even sitting for a week. My other cars were fine if I drove them every other week but sometimes I would forget and realize the truck had not been driven in a month and batteries (even new AGM ones) went dead. Had to recharge them and I was fine for awhile. I just got into the habit of trickle charging because of my schedule really not something wrong with the cars. It's all the gizmos we have on these cars. For example, my 22 Corsair GT has a camera in the front and rear that I installed that will capture movement in a parking lot or garage and record everything. That has a constant draw on the 12 volt system. I also have a CD player installed in my glove box and that will stay powered for 30-60 minutes before it cuts off. With that going on, I figured most of my trips are 2-15 miles so I am usually in EV mode most of my time. I have not filled the tank in over a month and it's still full. So, that means I do have some draw on that battery out of the ordinary. I don't find the trickle charge connection hard or difficult as all I have to do is open the rear gate, hook the cord up to the female side of the two pronged cord and voila I am charging. The female side of the cord connects underneath to the 12 volt battery under the spare tire. SO, I hope I am not scaring anyone thinking the car is faulty. I'm a gadget guy and after seeing some people have issues here with weak battery on occasion, I immediately hooked up my trickle charger. I had one battery weakness issue happen on my 2016 Ford Fusion Hybrid. Last year I came out of the supermarket after driving 2 miles from home on a nice day. Car was dead with a warning that my power system had faulted. The dealer was baffled and they saw it happen to them in the shop but all they could figure was that the battery was a tiny bit below what the system likes to see (that is how they told me). They recharged the battery and mentioned a trickle charger and I already had been using one on my 2008 Sport Trac (it was the vehicle sitting for a month or so and the alarm and other add-on electronics were present). Hope that explains my madness. Send me a direct message if you want to get my attention on something.

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[heywardjr]

After having a 2020 Corsair reserve for a few years I know the issues of draining the 12V battery if not driven too much. I resorted to a trickle charger to help this situation.
What I’m not clear on is in my new 2022 GT PHEV, will the system also charge the 12V battery eliminating the need for trickle charger?
I have done some research on Google regarding this but there isn’t a clear explanation. Any one wish to chime in?

I found the answer using Google. Our Corsair GT models have a component called the DC\DC Converter. These are a normal part of EV and PHEV systems from most brands. See the attached guide from Lincoln where there is a diagram/chart that states:
"Provides 12 volts to charge the 12-volt battery and run vehicle accessories."

I have attached the file from Lincoln. Suggest printing this out as it looks handy to have around.

Here is where the Lincoln ERG Guide is posted: Lincoln Corsair GT ERG

So, I'm thinking I don't need the trickle charge now after all.

 

[heywardjr]

What he stated above (vehicle sitting for a few weeks or more on a 08 Sport Trac - which is only a gasoline powered vehicle) is a battery going dead because of non-use from a parasitic drain or draw. Vehicles built in the last couple of decades have a lot of electronics to do all the things we want in a modern vehicle. The issue with electronics is they continue to draw power or electrical current (a very tiny amount) with the engine turned off. This is called a parasitic drain. Usually what is an acceptable electrical drain is 50 milliamps. Or 50 thousandths of an amp. That kind of electrical current draw is acceptable as long as the vehicle is started in a week or so. Let the vehicle sit for longer like weeks at a time and that kind of draw depletes the battery capacity so much so there is not enough battery capacity to start the gasoline engine.

In an EV or hybrid, I do not have the answer. For a gasoline engine that sits for weeks a trickle charger is a good or at least an acceptable solution versus disconnecting the battery which would be a different solution.

Action

See my latest posting as I discovered something about these cars where we have an on-board DC\DC converter to charge the 12 volt after all.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/showroom/resources/2021_Corsair_ERG.pdf

 

[TimCooper]

I found the answer using Google. Our Corsair GT models have a component called the DC\DC Converter. These are a normal part of EV and PHEV systems from most brands. See the attached guide from Lincoln where there is a diagram/chart that states:
"Provides 12 volts to charge the 12-volt battery and run vehicle accessories."

I have attached the file from Lincoln. Suggest printing this out as it looks handy to have around.

Here is where the Lincoln ERG Guide is posted: Lincoln Corsair GT ERG

So, I'm thinking I don't need the trickle charge now after all.

Thank you very much for finding this resource. During my research I had found reference to Dc/Dc converters but none of them were brand specific til now. I appreciate the help very much
Tim.

 

[nmbchemist]

Thank you heywardjr and TimCooper for your efforts to resolve this question. I have printed the Guide. It has other useful information. Should have been part of the owners manual.

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[JimboPalmer]

This is teardown of a Ford hybrid battery case showing the DC to DC converter. I would expect the Lincoln to be similar.

 

[kingdre]

This is teardown of a Ford hybrid battery case showing the DC to DC converter. I would expect the Lincoln to be similar.

NICE!!

 

[kingdre]

Hey guys. I've been in FoMoCo hybrids since 2019, but the GT plug-in is my first. I'm not worried at ALL about any of this. There are 2010 Escape hybrids running around with over 400k miles in NYC with the original battery.

 

[heywardjr]

I’m not worried either as my 2016 Fusion Hybrid operated flawlessly. I have a lot of confidence in the system. I do think Lincoln had a problem with battery supplier quality issues based on some of the complaints here.

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[Ptrieger]

New to this thread. Have learned a lot - FINALLY found the battery. I got a message that my battery charge was low and the connect feature was going into deep sleep. We hooked the battery up to a charger and it did show it was low. I drive mostly in EV mode, seldom in gas. Still not 100% clear if the DC/DC converter actually charges the 12volt battery. Cannot see having to attach to a trickle charger to it as the tire had to come out and everything in the back. The dealer should do more education on this issue!

 

[heywardjr]

Yeah, the converter is supposed to charge the 12 volt battery. I stopped using the trickle charger months ago after discovering the documentation on keeping the battery charged properly. If you are getting low battery, I'd suggest getting it to the dealer as you might have a faulty 12 volt battery. I have left my trickle charger cables hooked up so if I want to check the condition of the battery, I don't have to remove the tire or any of the layers of covers off. I just hook up my battery to the special cable and I can recondition and check the battery at times.

 

[TxTom]

FYI, I have used a trickle charger 3 times on my one month old 2022 GT model, and it takes several hours to show charged. It is a 4.5 amp charger. Also, I connect easily as there are Pos and Neg posts under the hood, right side of the engine compartment looking at the engine. The Pos post is under a red plastic cover that can be pulled open. The Neg post is a bolt to the right, further back near the firewall, with a nut on it at its base. Much easier to attach there than at the battery under the spare tire.

 

[TxTom]

Per my comment above...Pages 365-366 in the 2022 Corsair Owner's Manual.