Brake pedal "feel", & some squeals

[ogre01]

I've been chasing some squeals in my brakes, fully serviced rotors all-around, new pads all around, last weekend even cleaned and put some "bedding surface" of some type on the rotors (from the autoparts store); still no dice. Has anyone ever had just a bad/loud pads right out of the box? I'm ready to shoot the parts canon, because for the life of me, I cannot find the cause of the squeal and its awful.

During this work, a shop guy* was helping apply the brakes while I was looking for the noise, and he commented the pedal felt soft. To me, it feels normal, but I drive it every day and it feels the same as my previous 2007 Town Car. He's also coming from the world of trucks, I don't think he and his wife even have a car. I'm wondering if "our" pedals are intended to have a softer feel? Engagement doesn't start in earnest until 1/3 down; a hard stop I'd press to probably the lower 1/4 of travel. For due diligence, I did completely flush my brake system (definitely needed done anyway), everything properly bled, but the pedal feels the same. Does anyone have a pedal that's engaging right around the top of travel or is the feel intended as a "luxury" feature (I believe it is)?

* - interestingly, while I find the squeal ear piercing, both shop guys (only ~12 years older than me), cannot hear it at all. I would be inclined to think "I" was crazy if it weren't for the looks of horror and plugging ears from women and children when I drive around our quiet town square.

 

[Action]

Soft or spongy pedal is usually associated with air in the system.
Temperature and humidity can impact brake feel to some extent and this will vary with brake friction material types.

Noises or sounds when braking or at times when the pedal is NOT pressed.
Typically can go away with harder braking when applying the brake pedal.
Can fluctuate with humidity.

Usually due to dirt/contaminants or misalignment of braking surfaces.
And brake friction material DOES have a big play in squeaks & squeals.
Adding a gasket, grease or sealant on the BACK side of the pad can help as well.

Brake friction types
Organic, semi-metallic, full metal or sintered metallic, Ceramic, and hybrid ceramic

Which type did you install on your Town Car?
Just for clarity, the rotors were replaced, correct?

Action

 

[ogre01]

I just had the rotors turned, not replaced; they were still well within service limits. I just bought the cheapest pads available, I assume organic, (BrakeBest brand at O'Reilly's), under the assumption that cheaper has poorer performance, but less squealing (brother has high performance pads on his 300 SRT8, and hates the noise they make).

Squealing only under moderate, aka typical pressure. No squeal underway, no squealing under hard braking. If I purposely hold the brakes where it makes them squeal (during a long moderate decel, or while "power braking" at a constant speed), it will go away after a bit, but comes back shortly after the system cools back down. I did not do any sort of bedding procedure for them (again something brother's car requires); never previously needed.

I do have grease on the slides, pad backs, and everything is very clean. It's not misaligned and no jittering under any pressure.

Definitely no air in the system.

Maybe I'll swap back to front and start chasing the noise.

 

[Action]

Brakes squeal when the friction material is not fully engaged to the rotor. Or parts of the pad are not fully engaged. So, there is a high-pitched sound from pad or areas of the pad engaging and disengaging. Vibrating if you will.

There are two methods of reducing or eliminating the sound.
Stop the pad from moving or vibrating. Or get more of the pad engaged to the rotor.

The grease, gaskets, shims or other means on the back of the pad are in an attempt to absorb the movement or vibration of the pad.
Nearly everything else is an attempt to get more or total contact of the pad to the rotor under all circumstances. (Hot cold, slow rotation or fast rotation)

Dirt/dust or any other foreign things on the pad/rotor or on the caliper mounting prevent the pad from perfect contact with the rotor. Cheap pads are likely organic as you guessed. In addition to the dust they generate, they tend to absorb other things easier (mostly fluids) that can change the friction over parts of the surface of the pad. Which makes installation interesting as any foreign substance on the friction side of the pad or the braking area of the rotor becomes an issue. Using a brake clean spray product may not get out all of any foreign substance.

The rotor machining is critical as well for alignment. And to provide a surface that is consistent and free of hard spots.

My Navigator specifies Ceramic pads. That is all I have ever used. And I get them at Auto Zone or O'Reilly's. Because those two locations (and maybe others) have a lifetime guarantee. They are higher in cost. However, I keep my vehicles for a long time. In the long run I am money ahead.
Plus, the ceramic do not make any squeaks or squeals. Because they are a denser and more uniform material where it meets the steel rotor.

Action

 

[Becker34]

I'm wondering if "our" pedals are intended to have a softer feel?

I've driven Panthers exclusively for the last 25 years. Every time I drive someone else's car I do a quick brake check right away just to see what I'm in for just because I'm so used to Panther brakes. That being said, an experience that stands out to me was a time I had to move a friend's new Toyota Highlander about 7 or 8 years ago after replacing pads on all 4 corners on my old '00 MGM. I LIGHTLY tapped the brakes and almost went through the windshield. So yeah, just a little bit of a difference.

 

[04TC]

I'm wondering if "our" pedals are intended to have a softer feel?

Yes, softer and squishier feel than any other vehicle I've ever driven

* - interestingly, while I find the squeal ear piercing, both shop guys (only ~12 years older than me), cannot hear it at all. I would be inclined to think "I" was crazy if it weren't for the looks of horror and plugging ears from women and children when I drive around our quiet town square.

There is a range of high-pitched sounds that most children can hear, but are inaudible to most adults (even those without a hearing loss condition). Random fact: Beatles took this into consideration when making their Sgt. Pepper's album.