An update on my 2021 Corsair Grand Touring PHEV problems

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PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
So I have been working with Lincoln Concierge and Wickstrom Lincoln, Barrington, IL, almost since we got the car September 25, 2021. I have detailed that struggle with non-functional Level 2 charging on the blog all along my path. Lincoln had me bring in a second electrician and when he identified the problem to be the car, Lincoln turned on me saying the electrician was not Lincoln Certified (what ever that means?) and the dealership's claim, that there is nothing wrong with the car, stands.

I forced a move to a higher level person at Lincoln. She had me take the car to another dealership, Rohrman Lincoln, Schaumburg, IL, for a second opinion. I personally spent 5 hours with their tech reviewing everything that happened over the past 3 months. He left the ticket open and told me to take the car, that he needed time to study the material I gave him. I had had enough and using the Lincoln Warranty booklet found info on the BBB Auto Line Program. I contacted them and they suggested I open a case just in case this dealer could not solve the car's problem. I have been keeping documents and email copies all along and put them in a case file on the BBB Auto Line server.

When I didn't hear from Rohrman this week, I called this morning and was hung up on three times in a row when I said who I was. Finally, I got a Service Manager who said he wanted to talk to the tech and that he would call me back. He did 15 minutes later telling me that the dealership had been ordered by Lincoln Concierge to stop communicating with me and to not provide anything about the service visit to me. I was shocked!

About an hour after this call, I was contacted by a BBB Auto Line advisor. They had received an email from Lincoln Concierge telling them that no material about my problems would be supplied to them anymore and that I has settled with Lincoln over this problem for a "goodwill" check for $500! My advisor asked if that was true, had I settled? Absolutely not. I had not heard from Lincoln Concierge in a couple of weeks. She told me not to accept such a check as it might bind me to closing the issues with my car. She said Lincoln Concierge's email said they would see me in an arbitration hearing.

Having read how others on this blog had been treated so well by Lincoln Concierge when their car could not be repaired after 4 visits and 30 days in the shop, I am stupefied at my treatment. I have done everything I could possibly do to help troubleshoot this car's problems over the past three months. What is going on with Lincoln to act like this? Are they afraid this could turn into a battery replacement program like they have had with the Ford Kuga PHEV in Europe? That has cost them 24,000 recalled cars with potentially contaminated Samsung HV batteries; the last of which was repaired in March 2021.

When I bought my 2021 Corsair GT PHEV, I had no idea my life would be taken over by owning it. If I had, I would have bought a car from another company. No wonder Consumer Report rated Lincoln the least reliable car last year!
 

bigblue2007

Active member
196
69
28
Boston, MA
So I have been working with Lincoln Concierge and Wickstrom Lincoln, Barrington, IL, almost since we got the car September 25, 2021. I have detailed that struggle with non-functional Level 2 charging on the blog all along my path. Lincoln had me bring in a second electrician and when he identified the problem to be the car, Lincoln turned on me saying the electrician was not Lincoln Certified (what ever that means?) and the dealership's claim, that there is nothing wrong with the car, stands.

I forced a move to a higher level person at Lincoln. She had me take the car to another dealership, Rohrman Lincoln, Schaumburg, IL, for a second opinion. I personally spent 5 hours with their tech reviewing everything that happened over the past 3 months. He left the ticket open and told me to take the car, that he needed time to study the material I gave him. I had had enough and using the Lincoln Warranty booklet found info on the BBB Auto Line Program. I contacted them and they suggested I open a case just in case this dealer could not solve the car's problem. I have been keeping documents and email copies all along and put them in a case file on the BBB Auto Line server.

When I didn't hear from Rohrman this week, I called this morning and was hung up on three times in a row when I said who I was. Finally, I got a Service Manager who said he wanted to talk to the tech and that he would call me back. He did 15 minutes later telling me that the dealership had been ordered by Lincoln Concierge to stop communicating with me and to not provide anything about the service visit to me. I was shocked!

About an hour after this call, I was contacted by a BBB Auto Line advisor. They had received an email from Lincoln Concierge telling them that no material about my problems would be supplied to them anymore and that I has settled with Lincoln over this problem for a "goodwill" check for $500! My advisor asked if that was true, had I settled? Absolutely not. I had not heard from Lincoln Concierge in a couple of weeks. She told me not to accept such a check as it might bind me to closing the issues with my car. She said Lincoln Concierge's email said they would see me in an arbitration hearing.

Having read how others on this blog had been treated so well by Lincoln Concierge when their car could not be repaired after 4 visits and 30 days in the shop, I am stupefied at my treatment. I have done everything I could possibly do to help troubleshoot this car's problems over the past three months. What is going on with Lincoln to act like this? Are they afraid this could turn into a battery replacement program like they have had with the Ford Kuga PHEV in Europe? That has cost them 24,000 recalled cars with potentially contaminated Samsung HV batteries; the last of which was repaired in March 2021.

When I bought my 2021 Corsair GT PHEV, I had no idea my life would be taken over by owning it. If I had, I would have bought a car from another company. No wonder Consumer Report rated Lincoln the least reliable car last year!
I am sorry to hear about this. Have you tried calling the attorney general's office for your state? I have had a buyback with Lincoln for a 19 MKC over a paint issue with the car. It took me 6 months but they bought it back.
 

tgara

Active member
181
137
43
I think things changed when you went nuclear and opened a case file with the BBB Autoline program.


Once Lincoln found out about this, they made the settlement offer as per the procedure. If you don't accept it, they may negotiate, or simply move to the next step, which is arbitration (and according to the Concierge email that's what they've done). Not sure if you can walk this back now and continue to try to diagnose the car or do a buyback. Lincoln will likely lawyer-up for the arbitration, and you should too. I would definitely put your attorney on speed dial.
 

PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
I think things changed when you went nuclear and opened a case file with the BBB Autoline program.


Once Lincoln found out about this, they made the settlement offer as per the procedure. If you don't accept it, they may negotiate, or simply move to the next step, which is arbitration (and according to the Concierge email that's what they've done). Not sure if you can walk this back now and continue to try to diagnose the car or do a buyback. Lincoln will likely lawyer-up for the arbitration, and you should too. I would definitely put your attorney on speed dial.
Lincoln found out about my case through the Ford co-sponsored BBB Auto Line program. I have attached Ford's own documents concerning their membership in the BBB Auto Line Program. They call it out in Lincoln's 2021 Corsair Warranty book, page 38, which, by the way, wasn't in the owner's manual or packet of paper I got with the new car. I had to search for the Warranty book on the Lincoln website and download it. When your car spends 31 days in the service departments of two dealers without resolution of its problems and that is one month of the three months you have owned the car, the car is a Lemon. Since Lincoln could not repair the car and refused to acknowledge it is a Lemon, I had little choice in the matter but to use Ford's BBB Auto Line Program. There is no "I take it back" position possible.
 

Attachments

  • FordMotorCo BBB auto line.pdf
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  • HowBBBworks.pdf
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heywardjr

SUPPORTING MEMBER
96
88
18
Yes, that's the same process with GM. Close friend had two cars from Buick that were a lemon and had a known engine noise problem. GM knew it was there since they fixed it the next model year but refused to fix it on the model he had. So, after 3 months of back and forth to the dealers, BBB agreed it was lemon law time and GM had to take the car back. The dealer is supposed to send it back to the manufacture and is not allowed to resell it but I wonder if they clean it up and sell as used car. Well, at least you will get resolution and a you can then order a new car from whoever you want or get a 2022 Corsair.
 

bbf2530

Junior Member
2,850
1,593
113
Hi gang. There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to how many times a vehicle needs to be subject to repair for the same issue, how many days (cumulative) that a vehicle needs to have been out of service for repairs, and how many Dealers need to have been involved, etc. for a vehicle to qualify for BBB AutoLine Arbitration buyback by Lincoln/Ford.
The basics can be found on page 3 of the booklet below (which PaddyH01 also attached):

Therefore, in order to be sure we get the correct information, it would be advisable that anyone interested in the specifics of the BBB AutoLine Arbitration procedure read the BBB AutoLine booklet, and the Warranty Guide, which we should receive when we purchase our vehicles (if new).

Also, as an FYI: Lemon Law buybacks and the BBB AutoLine Arbitration are two different entities.

The Lemon Law requirements can vary by State. However, the BBB AutoLine Arbitration process is pretty standard nation wide.

And as a second FYI: Lemon Law buybacks are returned to Lincon/Ford. It would make absolutely no sense for a Dealer to clean it up and sell it for a loss, as opposed to returning it to Ford and being completely reimbursed for the vehicle.
That being said, some Lemon Law buyback vehicles are subsequently repaired by Ford/Lincoln and resold. They are supposed to be clearly listed/sold as Lemon law buyback/repairs. And they usually come with some sort of extended warranty coverage.

Hope this information helps and good luck.
 

Attachments

  • FordMotorCo BBB auto line.pdf
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tgara

Active member
181
137
43
Lincoln found out about my case through the Ford co-sponsored BBB Auto Line program. I have attached Ford's own documents concerning their membership in the BBB Auto Line Program. They call it out in Lincoln's 2021 Corsair Warranty book, page 38, which, by the way, wasn't in the owner's manual or packet of paper I got with the new car. I had to search for the Warranty book on the Lincoln website and download it. When your car spends 31 days in the service departments of two dealers without resolution of its problems and that is one month of the three months you have owned the car, the car is a Lemon. Since Lincoln could not repair the car and refused to acknowledge it is a Lemon, I had little choice in the matter but to use Ford's BBB Auto Line Program. There is no "I take it back" position possible.
Good luck my friend. I fear your problems will continue for a while longer. :( Hopefully these problems won't outlast you.

In the meantime, can't you live with Level 1 charging? It's not that bad, is it?
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PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
Good luck my friend. I fear your problems will continue for a while longer. :( Hopefully these problems won't outlast you.

In the meantime, can't you live with Level 1 charging? It's not that bad, is it?
I could if it took a shorter time than the average of 23 hours for 13 miles.
 

PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
Good luck my friend. I fear your problems will continue for a while longer. :( Hopefully these problems won't outlast you.

In the meantime, can't you live with Level 1 charging? It's not that bad, is it?
You couldn't be any more dead on. Today the Lincoln/Webasto Level 1 charging cable began to generate charging faults that each popped the GFCI outlet each time. That ended even charging at Level 1 for the Corsair. I decided it wasn't intelligent to keep trying to use the charging cable at all. I will run on gas until Lincoln takes the car back.
 

tgara

Active member
181
137
43
You couldn't be any more dead on. Today the Lincoln/Webasto Level 1 charging cable began to generate charging faults that each popped the GFCI outlet each time. That ended even charging at Level 1 for the Corsair. I decided it wasn't intelligent to keep trying to use the charging cable at all. I will run on gas until Lincoln takes the car back.
But you can still charge the batteries by driving the car around on the gas engine, right? So you have one out of the 3 recharging methods working at least. That's something, isn't it? :)
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PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
But you can still charge the batteries by driving the car around on the gas engine, right? So you have one out of the 3 recharging methods working at least. That's something, isn't it? :)
Sort of. The car mostly runs on ICE right now, even with multiple miles of electric displayed on the dash. This has gotten worse as it has gotten colder here in Illinois. After about 10-15 minutes of ICE driving the car will allow a short electric run. Brake regen recovery charging is working. Even with 12-15 miles of electric displayed switching to EV only driving mode will not force the car to run on electric. Two Lincoln service shops have said this is not the way the car should be working but they have no solution nor does Lincoln engineering.
 

PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
Right move. Not worth having a fire or the vehicle blow up in your garage. Yikes. Good luck. We're with you on this.
My wife agrees whole heartedly. I has never seen the car's fault led before, it flashes brilliant Red-Orange and you hear a loud beeping. The dash displays Charging Failure and you get a alert display on the Lincoln Way app for each one. She was frightened!
 

tgara

Active member
181
137
43
UGH!!! So sorry to hear. I just got to get my '22 from the dealer. Lets see.
So sorry to hear about PaddyH. I hope you fare better. It really appears that these PZEF‘s or whatever they are called are not ready for prime time…
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PaddyH01

Member
68
58
18
Illinois
So sorry to hear about PaddyH. I hope you fare better. It really appears that these PZEF‘s or whatever they are called are not ready for prime time…
I agree. It's PHEV or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle by the way. They seemed to be a good crossover to somewhat electric without giving up the gas engine but not in my case. You should see all of the failing Ford Mach-es over on the Mach-e Owners blog. It is Ford who is not ready for primetime.
 

tgara

Active member
181
137
43
I agree. It's PV or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle by the way. They seemed to be a good crossover to somewhat electric without giving up the gas engine but not in my case. You should see all of the failing Ford Mach-es over on the Mach-e Owners blog. It is Ford who is not ready for primetime.
Please, don't get me started on the Mustang Mach-E.

IT'S NOT A MUSTANG! Probably the farthest thing from a Mustang there could ever be! Ford should have called it simply the Ford Mach-E. Calling it a Mustang denigrates the Mustang heritage! Blasphemy!

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RedHoncho

SUPPORTING MEMBER
305
190
43
Marysville, Ohio
I agree. It's PHEV or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle by the way. They seemed to be a good crossover to somewhat electric without giving up the gas engine but not in my case. You should see all of the failing Ford Mach-es over on the Mach-e Owners blog. It is Ford who is not ready for primetime.
Its funny that the Ford Mustang MachE has garnered one of Consumer Reports recommended buys and is best in class even over Tesla. People who have problems are the most vocal.
 
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